Adding New Socket - 2 Ideas - Advice please

[Cajafiesta]

If I'm reading prior posts correctly, you figured it out?  Bad ballast?  Makes sense. 

 

 

I fix shit for a living, so my brain is always in "diagnostic" mode.

 

You gotta think through the system you're dealing with.  I'm not sure if I understand the layout of your setup correctly, but if I do, one light going out on some sort of regular basis is not likely an indicator of your equipment over-drawing a circuit.  If you were over drawing a circuit ( using a piece of equipment that demands more amperage than the circuit is intended for) that would manifest as everything on that circuit losing power due to a fuse failure or a breaker trip condition ( depending on your home electrical.  You said fuses, so I'd expect to see a blown fuse. ) Or, you know, alternately, your house will be on fire.  Those are really your two options in a situation where your equipment is out running the current supply ability of the circuit/panel.  Either the safety device catches it (fuse or breaker) or the over current condition starts to create heat which ends up as burned wiring/insulation/walls/home etc.  The only exception to my diagnostic thought process here is if the outlet you're plugged into is the only thing on the circuit, and you only have that light plugged into that outlet/curcuit.  That would be pretty obscure.  It's extremely uncommon to see one outlet (receptacle..whatever they call it in the UK.) as the only power consumption location on the entire run of a circuit from the panel. At least it would be very uncommon here in the US.

 

If you have one item, that's plugged into one outlet, as the only failure it is almost certainly an equipment issue and not an electrical supply issue. 

 

 

 

The real, correct way to find out is to use a meter with an amp clamp and measure amp draw of the light.  Measure startup amp draw ( amperage when you first turn it on) and running amp draw.  It's not uncommon for something that's designed to run at, say, 15 amps to draw more on startup, but it should level out to the rated range almost immediately after startup.  Once you have amp draw data, you'll really know what's going on. 

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Cajafiesta

[latigid aikon]

Just now, Cajafiesta said:

It's extremely uncommon to see one outlet (receptacle..whatever they call it in the UK.) as the only power consumption location on the entire run of a circuit from the panel

Socket

 

If you want a laugh do a google for UK ring main, this country has a pretty unique way of wiring a house! A legacy from WW2 as I understand it.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit

Edited November 27, 2021 by latigid aikon
wiki link

[Cajafiesta]

@latigid aikon  Interesting!  I didn't know that.  That's wild. The ring idea seems like it could potentially be sketchy.  They have to allow amp capacity on the "ring" to accommodate the large number of "sockets" () so you end up providing more capacity than your average appliance can manage.  Seems like 32A circuits are normal?  Man you could burn up a kitchen appliance's factory wiring and cause a hell of a fire before the fuse caught the issue.  Or likely never caught the issue. But I'm basing that in US consumer appliances.   There ain't no way in fuck a US intended hand mixer's cord would take 32a of current.  That shit would melt up like it was it's job.

 

 

Do y'all have a lot of house fires? hahaha  

 

So I'd assume  y'all only have a small quantity of fuses/breakers in the average panel in a house? Maybe only two or three?

 

 

 

[latigid aikon]

It's all 240v which makes quite a difference too.

 

Do a google image search for UK consumer unit and you'll see some pretty typical installations.

 

House fires are not particularly common but I don't know how it compares to other countries.

 

While the rings are a bit weird the UK plugs on appliances are incredibly over-engineered, each one even has its own fuse. I don't think they can be beaten and you even see them in use on large ships and aircraft globally! They do have one disadvantage though, if you leave them laying about unplugged they tend to fall pins up and if you tread on them barefoot they are very painful...

 

8 or 10 breakers is probably typical, 2 or 3 rings and 2 or 3 lighting circuits, usually upstairs and downstairs on their own rings. And separate ones for the cooker, maybe the garage etc.

[Cajafiesta]

@latigid aikon Ahhhhhhh a fused plug makes total sense as the standard.  I get what you're saying about plug orientation.  Our standard grounded 110v plug has the wiring exiting the plug prongs in a straight line.  Y'all must have right-angle oriented setups.  I bet that IS a mother bitch stepping on that barefooted.  

 

 

 

I get it now.  I was assuming a "ring" just had every draw-source shoved on it.  I'm processing now that outlets and lighting may not be on the same ring as well as the high amp equipment being on it's own ring. 

 

 

I was sitting here thinking that outlets, lighting, stove, hvac was all on the same ring.  My brain was saying " uh...that doesn't seem like the smartest idea."  Makes more sense with clarification!

[latigid aikon]

Yes, 90 degree wiring exits. Which I think makes sense for anything permanently connected so the cable runs close to the wall, so something like a TV can have the plug in the wall behind it without the cable exit interfering.

 

Don't do a google image search for UK plug hurt foot, it's actually worse than I thought!

 

Try explaining ring mains to non-UK electricians and they often don't believe you even with clarification, they're pretty crazy but they do work well enough on the whole.

[Cajafiesta]

@latigid aikon   Right angle plugs definitely make more sense. I’m always aggravated at stuff like outlets behind furniture. You can’t slide shit up against the wall with a straight plug! It’s silly.
 

 

I’m definitely no electrician. I’m just a dude that works on stuff that has multiple disciplines wrapped up in one package. Mechanical, electrical, hydraulic, pneumatic.  But I can easily see how they’d be confused. That’s drastically different than how we do things here in the states. 
 

I’ll save myself from the foot-appocalypse images on the google machine. 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Cajafiesta

[latigid aikon]

35 minutes ago, Cajafiesta said:

I’m just a dude that works on stuff that has multiple disciplines wrapped up in one package. Mechanical, electrical, hydraulic, pneumatic. 

Same here, I know enough to be dangerous in many fields

[Cajafiesta]

Just now, latigid aikon said:

Same here, I know enough to be dangerous in many fields

Service Apes unite! 
 

I always say “What do us service techs know?  We’re just apes that bang on shit with hammers.”  Tongue-in-cheek, of course. 
 

It takes a special breed to diagnose issues on equipment that uses multiple “disciplines” of “engineering” subjects

[latigid aikon]

16 minutes ago, Cajafiesta said:

It takes a special breed to diagnose issues on equipment that uses multiple “disciplines” of “engineering” subjects

It's true, it's just a shame those skills don't seem to translate into horticulture, it took me a while to figure out that nature is not engineering