Adding New Socket - 2 Ideas - Advice please

[John'sMidnightGarden]

Hi all
I'm looking to upgrade / improve my electrics for the tent.  I'm not in a position to get the house rewired yet - it's old, with a fuse box, awkwardly positioned sockets.
Worried I'm overloading something.  Occasional 600w HPS failure at lights-on.  400w MH always fine.  Could be ballast, reflector, contact relay or timer, but they never fail with the MH.  Replugging and being annoyed seems to sort it after a while.  This just don't feel great gang.  The contactor relay / timer go into the same extension as the rvk / controller.  I feel like this might be it?

I want to add a socket next to the tent for the lights.  Greenpower 2-gang on order, want to  do this properly.  Seeking a bit of wisdom on this please.  Maybe silly question but I know nothing other than how to physically achieve my idea - not sure my ideas are good.
I could run 2.5mm twin and earth from it, through the ceiling, across loft, down into another room, stick a plug on the end and plug it into a wall socket there?  All neatly done of course.  Nobody needs the socket I'd be using.

or

 

I could run the wires from a socket in the room with the tent, that feeds my computer etc, normal stuff.  Much closer but involves digging into the wall or replacing the (flush) socket with a box one, and I'm not entirely sure this is as safe as making my own plug-in posh-looking extension lead.  Feels like I'm adding another 2-gang to the current mess.
I have researched but knowing advice comes from people who definitely know what I'm plugging in feels worth a lot more.  If the problem remains, I'm still well happy for the improved power situation.

 

thanks for any tips

 

[Roofless won]

Putting a plug on the end of twin and earth is definitely not a good idea and should not be done. No offence but from your post you probably shouldn't be attempting to install a new socket outlet - get a professional in.

 

Having said that, you probably are capable of finding out if you are overloading your wiring.

Are the circuits in your fusebox labelled? All the sockets in your house might be on just 1 ring circuit therefore running an extension from another room might well do nothing to lower the load on your house wiring. As a general rule you shouldn't plug more than 3000w of equipment into any socket or 13amp extension lead and a 32amp ring circuit shouldn't have more than 7000 watts total on it.

 

Calculating the load on your wiring and understanding which circuits feed which rooms should probably be your starting point.....

[latigid aikon]

56 minutes ago, LWD said:

Occasional 600w HPS failure at lights-on.  400w MH always fine.  Could be ballast, reflector, contact relay or timer,

Have you tried a different 600w lamp (bulb)?

[John'sMidnightGarden]

21 minutes ago, Roofless won said:

Putting a plug on the end of twin and earth is definitely not a good idea and should not be done. No offence but from your post you probably shouldn't be attempting to install a new socket outlet - get a professional in.

 

Having said that, you probably are capable of finding out if you are overloading your wiring.

Are the circuits in your fusebox labelled? All the sockets in your house might be on just 1 ring circuit therefore running an extension from another room might well do nothing to lower the load on your house wiring. As a general rule you shouldn't plug more than 3000w of equipment into any socket or 13amp extension lead and a 32amp ring circuit shouldn't have more than 7000 watts total on it.

 

Calculating the load on your wiring and understanding which circuits feed which rooms should probably be your starting point.....

thanks mate good to read that it's all info I was needing.  Honestly I know enough to be wary, a bit of success in replacing lights etc round the house has got me feeling braver - definitely not wiser, I will rethink it.  REALLY wanted to avoid a pro / stranger coming in, but if this really is a tent-down job then so be it.

 

I'm now sure I'm not overloading the ring.  Upstairs is on its own ring, as is downstairs plugs and also up and down lights have their own.  Stop me if I've misunderstood! I'm not at 3000 on the ring let alone single socket.  You've potentially saved my life and made me feel safer with the current power situation.  I'd still like to get off the extension leads but maybe that's not so vital now.

 

Lamp has been replaced every time this happens and will display same symptoms, so I'll start swapping out the rest, starting with the contact relay / timer plug when it arrives.

Edited November 9, 2021 by LWD

[latigid aikon]

If you're getting a new timer and contactor anyway you could try putting each light on a separate timer and stagger their on times, only by a minute or something, just enough that they don't both try to strike up simultaneously.

[John'sMidnightGarden]

11 minutes ago, latigid aikon said:

If you're getting a new timer and contactor anyway you could try putting each light on a separate timer and stagger their on times, only by a minute or something, just enough that they don't both try to strike up simultaneously.

cheers mate I get you, only one light in my setup though.  2 lights is a dream for now!

[latigid aikon]

Sorry I misunderstood, I thought you meant you used the 400 AND the 600, not one or the other

 

So are you using the same reflector/socket/wiring with both and just changing the lamp and ballast when you swap between 400 and 600?

[John'sMidnightGarden]

Just now, latigid aikon said:

Sorry I misunderstood, I thought you meant you used the 400 AND the 600, not one or the other

 

So are you using the same reflector/socket/wiring with both and just changing the lamp and ballast when you swap between 400 and 600?

All good!  After reading enough posts on here, I reckon I could do 2 lights.  But anyway.

 

I've only changed the HPS bulb.  Each time I do the symptoms persist, but it's so intermittent a new bulb seems to work.  Previously they'd been bulbs I've had use out of, recently happened to a new bulb, used for about a week.  Never happens with MH.

 

Ballast is the same, digital / dimmable and I've forgotten to switch UP to 600w a few times in the past - NEVER left it too high and put a smaller bulb in though.  The euro reflector is a cheapo but again, no problem with the 400w MH.

 

I think my post might be in the wrong direction.  Just the wattage difference had me sweating electrical problems - guess I need to replace the ballast and see.  IF the fancy new contactor relay doesn't solve it.  I will update this post for completion sake if I find the cause thanks for the thoughts.

[Deranged World]

Try a heater instead of the 600w and see what happens, if it works fine then its the 600w light, then you know if its overload or fault. 

[John'sMidnightGarden]

Just now, Deranged World said:

Try a heater instead of the 600w and see what happens, if it works fine then its the 600w light, then you know if its overload or fault. 

Next time it happens I will quickly try a heater, see if it goes thanks mate didn't think of that

[Deranged World]

Just now, LWD said:

Next time it happens I will quickly try a heater, see if it goes thanks mate didn't think of that

If you donit now, then you know if its overload or not, and if not, then it has to be the 600w if everything else operates fine. 

[John'sMidnightGarden]

2 hours ago, Deranged World said:

If you donit now, then you know if its overload or not, and if not, then it has to be the 600w if everything else operates fine. 

I follow!  Sorry mate I misunderstood... and think I may have the answer too.

 

Tested a heater, no probs.  THEN I didn't expect this, but the fault occurred again, it's never happened so soon after resolving the issue so I was back at it, unplug everything, replug, no luck, messing with the timer, still worked with a desk lamp.  Rescrewed the bulb, nothing.

 

Then I remembered something about reflectors I read dunno how long ago.  I bent the metal contact up so it'd be definitely full contact with the bulb - sorted for now.

 

So I think this post was a waste of efforts on all parts, apologies!  The fault IS intermittent so time will tell.  I don't know why the MH bulb would be different.  It's that that's got me dubious.  I'll use it all as an excuse to upgrade old kit and find the culprit eventually.  Very pleased to learn more about my electrics though, I was always worried / cringing about my extension leads but sounds like many use them, with more than I do.

[Deranged World]

If theres been a poor contact with the bulb it can cause heat which may cause it to knock out the power, so you may well have sorted the issue. 

[John'sMidnightGarden]

Thought I'd report back on this, been helped by many an ancient post on many a topic so maybe useful in future.

 

It was the ballast.  Idiot. 

 

2 grows, starting with an old bulb so didn't heed it failing, new bulb sorted it, 1st grow came out great, into 2nd grow another hps failure, probably bad luck as new bulb sorted it immediately.  Occasional failure to come on sorted with a ballast power cycle, a new extension lead also fixed one failure.  3rd grow, lots of failures hence starting this post.

 

I think the whole thing was the ballast on its way out, over the course of a year, the symptoms stayed same just got more regular.  Maybe coincidence but shortly after you guys helped with responses, I smelled burning.  New greenpower timer, lumatek ballast and reflector in and working as expected.  Inside the old ballast (sunmaster, dimmable 600w)it looked ok but smelled awful, proper housefire nightmare smell (if you know you know).

 

I've a niggling thought that my next-door neighbour's talk of blown fuses might have been my fault.  Sounds nonsense, but type in "growroom tripping neighbours circuits" and you'll see it talked about. 

 

Thanks all, hope this helps someone in future

[stonerwizard]

If you’re not 100% about your home electrics I would have someone inspect them at some point if you can. A ring main can seem like it’s working ok when it’s actually broken and can be dangerous. Especially if your groom is at the end of the circuit with the return leg broken and it’s in a 32a fuse wire. 
I’m  not saying you have this issue as only testing would find that out but if you add sockets to an already overloaded cable it could be disastrous. 
 

Wizard