Is this bugs?

[aafots7]

 

Is this bug damage? getting little holes in some leaves and if so what kind. I was under the impression slugs or caterpillar are the only kind that can cause that type of damage. I've looked all over and can't see anything. 

[BarrySHitPeas]

Ive actually had the same and unfortunately my conclusion was its a plant virus, i should add mine kept coming back after re starting  grows and seem to  spread between plants, i also had other odd symptoms streaks in leaves for example.

and wholes sides of the leaf missing ..... so something to look out for

 

BTW i tried to rule out pest damage, so i bugged bombed the run prior to setup , and sprayed plants effected with a systemic pesticide, that leaves a well of poison in the plant and unfortunately the symptoms still spread and still progressed. so unlikely pests , i also avidly, visual went over the plants inspecting them.

 

If you google "holes in leaves, no bugs " and other such variants on that wording you will see others on the net  with the exact leaf missing bits.

common thing is missing leaf bits but no pest in sight.

 

"These include chlorosis (yellowing of leaves), necrosis (dark or dying parts of leaves), streaking or mosaics (swirling patterns of leaf discoloration), stunted/deformed leaves or plants, slow growth, weak stems and stalks, parts of leaves disappearing (leaving what looks like an insect bite in the leaf), shiny leaves, upturned leaf edges, “bubbling” on leaves, and decreased production of marijuana floral structure and resin glands."

 

That taken from another site regarding cannabis plants virus effects.

 

i should stress i could be wrong, I'm not an authority on plants, could just be a very hungry caterpillar and i really hope it is 

 

 

[aafots7]

2 hours ago, BarrySHitPeas said:

Ive actually had the same and unfortunately my conclusion was its a plant virus, i should add mine kept coming back after re starting  grows and seem to  spread between plants, i also had other odd symptoms streaks in leaves for example.

and wholes sides of the leaf missing ..... so something to look out for

 

BTW i tried to rule out pest damage, so i bugged bombed the run prior to setup , and sprayed plants effected with a systemic pesticide, that leaves a well of poison in the plant and unfortunately the symptoms still spread and still progressed. so unlikely pests , i also avidly, visual went over the plants inspecting them.

 

If you google "holes in leaves, no bugs " and other such variants on that wording you will see others on the net  with the exact leaf missing bits.

common thing is missing leaf bits but no pest in sight.

 

"These include chlorosis (yellowing of leaves), necrosis (dark or dying parts of leaves), streaking or mosaics (swirling patterns of leaf discoloration), stunted/deformed leaves or plants, slow growth, weak stems and stalks, parts of leaves disappearing (leaving what looks like an insect bite in the leaf), shiny leaves, upturned leaf edges, “bubbling” on leaves, and decreased production of marijuana floral structure and resin glands."

 

That taken from another site regarding cannabis plants virus effects.

 

i should stress i could be wrong, I'm not an authority on plants, could just be a very hungry caterpillar and i really hope it is 

 

 

Do u find it a problem and did u continue with the grow? 

[BarrySHitPeas]

Unfortunately for me yes it was a problem, every time I tried the weed the day later I got a temperature and felt quite sickie and itchy , if i didn't use it i was fine, every time i tried it i felt the same , i explained the situation to friend, got him to try it, same thing , i ended up throwing it all out, at great personal cost.  

 

I believe i could have had more then one virus, hence the suspect immune response from it. (I suspect you wont have this issue unique to my situation)

 

I'm currently in the progress completely replacing my grow set up, cleaning what i can with with either  bleach or ozone or replacing completely.

I believe mine likely came from my back garden from some raspberry plants , when clearing the garden i noticed more suspect plants so removed them all.

 

I didn't realize what i had so it went on for over a year , restarting grow after grow unwittingly contaminating all equipment and tools , 10% bleach is what you want to use on anything that's been in contact with those plants, and i invested in ozone machine , if you get one read up on it can be dangerous if used in A occupied space.

 

If you search the term mosaic virus , your find out more about plant  virus's.

 

Obviously I'd seek alternative advice before proceeding down the same path as me, as is pretty drastic , as is stands i can only see one symptom the missing leaf pieces i had others

I had unexplained defs , streaks in leafs , twisted leaves , hoked leaves  , bubbling  upturned leaf edges,

 

Some of the other symptoms to look out for

leaf streaks

 

twisted leaves

 

 

you notice any of your leaves do this yet ? it a bit different, happened a little later on after noticing the sort of pattern you've got now 

 

 

 

I should note in the bottom left of your picture , there is a leaf that looks a tad like its been potentially had at by thrips ? like little silvery marks on the leaf

can you take a picture of that ?

You could just have Thrips

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by BarrySHitPeas

[GSZZ]

21 hours ago, aafots7 said:

Is this bug damage? getting little holes in some leaves and if so what kind. I was under the impression slugs or caterpillar are the only kind that can cause that type of damage. I've looked all over and can't see anything. 

 

The burn marks on the "missing" bits is probably the biggest give away IMO. Plant Virus's like what @BarrySHitPeas are talking about are quite rare tbh - I've never in my career seen TMV or anything of the sorts on cannabis plants, but thats not to say it doesn't happen. I have seen a few cases that look almost identical to what Barry posted (the warped leaves, varigation etc) and its usually down to limited calcium uptake, either out of balance or something like a wet pot is limiting uptake. Toxicity and late-stage calcium "deficiency" is when things start going spotty, rusty and brittle.

 

It might be worth noting that if a plant can't use available calcium for whatever it needs, it will use another element which can really influence the final chemotype and ultimately the high you're experiencing. I've thrown whole plant yields away because they struggled during flower for whatever reason and it didn't smoke right, left me feeling a bit grotty...

 

anyway @aafots7 your issue looks like overfeeding, what are you feeding them and at what strength? Also how big are your pots, how much volume are you putting through them, what medium are you using and how often are you watering them?

 

 

[LK1]

Could be broad mites, especially if you traded clones with someone. They are microscopic can only be seen with 60-100x lens

[BarrySHitPeas]

3 hours ago, GSZZ said:

to limited calcium uptake, either out of balance or something like a wet pot is limiting uptake. Toxicity and late-stage calcium "deficiency"

 

 

I personal dont agree with the calcium answer.  just doesn't fit with what i've seen myself with my plants.

but @aafots I'd advise you to listen to @GSZZ hes been at this a whole lot longer then i have ,Perhaps yours is Just CAL related.

 

This is one of mine that looks like yours IMO

Mine went on to show further symptoms.

 

I had considered water issues previous to this, thats why i got a water report and went with GA to know what the water source was like and how the nutrient line would complement the water to avoid uptake issues.

and i pain strikingly hand watered slowly following a strict wet dry cycle,    i had doubts about everything.

maybe i was getting the weight perception wrong .......... so i resorted to weighing the pots everyday making sure i noted everything , at first the info doesn't tell you much after a while you can see weight loss and gain upon wet dry cycle , it gave me confidence i was getting it right. plus the roots looked healthy and grew fast.

 

and there was point before this happened, using the same equipment , same water source ,same nutrient line ,same methods without out all the funky happenings , and remember this went on for year for me, so i was expecting it to turn up in the end, so i was testing everything including water input  EC and PH to see if it changed it didn't. so it wasn't likely a change in water source.

 

Curious Where did you get this info on calcium causing such issues with leaves as the ones on my pic ? I'd love to have a read or view such info. as i've never seen anything about it ?

or least tell your source or reference / general direction of further searches  if you can remember.

(its just something that has consumed me for the last year.)

as a result m no longer growing at the moment , and considering replacing all of my equipment which is going to come a big cost.

 

Am that confident its viral , was seriously thinking of sending it off to get tested or least getting a ELISA test ,

to be honest if i had just  read the above with out experiencing it I'd said it was something else, as i am aware myself it sounds pretty far fetched.

but i can only go on my experiences.

 

this was a plant outside next to my raspberry bush that i thought was infected ..... looks similar to me given its another plant species yellow around the wound area

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by BarrySHitPeas

[aafots7]

5 hours ago, BarrySHitPeas said:

Unfortunately for me yes it was a problem, every time I tried the weed the day later I got a temperature and felt quite sickie and itchy , if i didn't use it i was fine, every time i tried it i felt the same , i explained the situation to friend, got him to try it, same thing , i ended up throwing it all out, at great personal cost.  

 

I believe i could have had more then one virus, hence the suspect immune response from it. (I suspect you wont have this issue unique to my situation)

 

I'm currently in the progress completely replacing my grow set up, cleaning what i can with with either  bleach or ozone or replacing completely.

I believe mine likely came from my back garden from some raspberry plants , when clearing the garden i noticed more suspect plants so removed them all.

 

I didn't realize what i had so it went on for over a year , restarting grow after grow unwittingly contaminating all equipment and tools , 10% bleach is what you want to use on anything that's been in contact with those plants, and i invested in ozone machine , if you get one read up on it can be dangerous if used in A occupied space.

 

If you search the term mosaic virus , your find out more about plant  virus's.

 

Obviously I'd seek alternative advice before proceeding down the same path as me, as is pretty drastic , as is stands i can only see one symptom the missing leaf pieces i had others

I had unexplained defs , streaks in leafs , twisted leaves , hoked leaves  , bubbling  upturned leaf edges,

 

Some of the other symptoms to look out for

leaf streaks

 

twisted leaves

 

 

you notice any of your leaves do this yet ? it a bit different, happened a little later on after noticing the sort of pattern you've got now 

 

 

 

I should note in the bottom left of your picture , there is a leaf that looks a tad like its been potentially had at by thrips ? like little silvery marks on the leaf

can you take a picture of that ?

You could just have Thrips

 

 

 

I haven't seen any coloring of the leaves on mine like that or blisters but the holes are certainly similar. I have had a few issues and I do suspect I may have had bugs but I have treated and it looked to have worked. I also stupidly had a fan heater on the floor to keep temps up, I started getting leaves curling up going crisp basically I was cooking the plant. Anyway since I've sorted that they've started to thrive except for these holes.

[GSZZ]

2 minutes ago, BarrySHitPeas said:

Curious Where did you get this info on calcium causing such issues with leaves as the ones on my pic ? I'd love to have a read or view such info. as i've never seen anything about it ?

or least tell your source or reference / general direction of further searches  if you can remember.

(its just something that has consumed me for the last year.)

as a result m no longer growing at the moment , and considering replacing all of my equipment which is going to come a big cost.

 

I've read that much from so many different forums and articles over the years I never bookmarked anything just remembered the bits that I needed to remember coupled with the experience of seeing it myself if I ramble enough maybe some of it will be a useful starting point? - I used to get it reguarly with juvenile plants quite bad but they mostly grew out of it, I'd find the odd weird coloured half a leaf, or one that would grow like an inward spiral with a weird off light green colour getting really small in on itself, later on as the plants matured. Sure I've seen those bumps every now and again too, but never gave those much thought either. I usually found them when I was trimming out the bottoms or harvesting, at which point I never gave it much thought because I used to be plagued with late stage calcium issues between week 4 and 6 of flower early on and eventually put it down to the PK and Silicone (potassium silicate) I was using that was knocking the NPK out of whack, soon as I dropped them the issue stopped and quality and yield went up and the unsightly late stage calcium issue went away - at that point I was quite happy for the odd weird leaf here and there.

 

It was only when I started learning about moisture content and how it effects stuff like the cation exchange of the medium and the availability of nutrients, rate of transpiration, osmotic pressure, tugidity and how they all work together to move the sap and nutrients around the plant that the penny dropped, it was while I was looking at "Crop Steering", calcium isn't very mobile inside of the plant, any kind of interruption to the flow of water around the plant effects the uptake of nutrients, if one element however abundant is having its uptake or transporation limited then everything else is limited too. Since I've tried to be stricter in maintaing moisture and EC inside my medium, the issues that I described previously started to go away as well. I've always been steadfast that it was never a lack of a certain element or anything like that, the issue was me all along just not having a deep enough understanding.

 

That being said, viral infections do happen in plants and that plant in your garden does look to be suffering a similar fate to those cannabis plants. I wouldn't like to be the one that convinces you the issue isn't what you think it is, only for you to suffer the same fate again and still have to bin everything. I'd feel a right mug, but stranger stuff has happened to cannabis plants with no answer. Only you know what the problem is because you experience it. If you can bring in plants that are fine and then turn to shit then unless you're doing something really, really wrong (I doubt it after 3 years of trying to crack it!) then you're probably right in your conclusion!

 

1 hour ago, BarrySHitPeas said:

oh maybe you can answer this @GSZZ unrelated question, i haven't had to buy anything previous to this since i started growing and my autos didn't do it, whats with all these little seed (ovules) in just about every thing i've tried recently , just i wanted to try Regs/Fems this has put me off Slightly  , any idea what causes it ?

 

Bad breeding! Alot of Spanish stuff goes like this, I'm not that clued up as to why it happens but I'm sure its just hermying and bad breeding.

 

 

Sorry if I haven't been much help!

[HazyDaze]

 

 

Either from an hot compost mix or over feeding, but usually from a 'hot' compost  mix. 

 

 

[aafots7]

17 hours ago, LK1 said:

Could be broad mites, especially if you traded clones with someone. They are microscopic can only be seen with 60-100x lens

They're from seed. I've treated several times for bugs and I've used a jewellers loupe checked leaves under and stems haven't seen one bug. 

[aafots7]

12 hours ago, HazyDaze said:

 

 

Either from an hot compost mix or over feeding, but usually from a 'hot' compost  mix. 

 

 

I'm using tropic mix medium I don't think it's hot. I'm just upped the feed. The stardawg has just had 2.5ml / 2L of grow and the sour diesel has had 2ml / 2L. I've seen no signs of nute burn on the leaves. 

[aafots7]

19 hours ago, GSZZ said:

 

The burn marks on the "missing" bits is probably the biggest give away IMO. Plant Virus's like what @BarrySHitPeas are talking about are quite rare tbh - I've never in my career seen TMV or anything of the sorts on cannabis plants, but thats not to say it doesn't happen. I have seen a few cases that look almost identical to what Barry posted (the warped leaves, varigation etc) and its usually down to limited calcium uptake, either out of balance or something like a wet pot is limiting uptake. Toxicity and late-stage calcium "deficiency" is when things start going spotty, rusty and brittle.

 

It might be worth noting that if a plant can't use available calcium for whatever it needs, it will use another element which can really influence the final chemotype and ultimately the high you're experiencing. I've thrown whole plant yields away because they struggled during flower for whatever reason and it didn't smoke right, left me feeling a bit grotty...

 

anyway @aafots7 your issue looks like overfeeding, what are you feeding them and at what strength? Also how big are your pots, how much volume are you putting through them, what medium are you using and how often are you watering them?

 

 

Hey man sorry for late reply. I'm growing in tropic mix medium using shogun samurai terra grow at the minute nothing else. Just fed the stardawg 2.5ml / 2L and the sour diesel 2ml / 2L, both i give a litre when the pots feel light which is usually every 2 - 3 days. I've not seen any sign of nute burn on the leaves in fact they look to be thriving other than the holes and the previous damage which I messed up with the environment. Plants are growing well in height they've grown quite a bit in the last week. 3 gal fabric pots.

[HazyDaze]

OK but it definitely happens with hot dirt, I. Wouldnt up the feed but it's up to you innit. 

 

Carry on, as you were....

[GSZZ]

13 minutes ago, aafots7 said:

Just fed the stardawg 2.5ml / 2L and the sour diesel 2ml / 2L, both i give a litre when the pots feel light which is usually every 2 - 3 days.

 

try watering them a bit more often, use a bit less feed. no more than 2ml/l. As your pot dries the nutrients dry in the medium too, which increases the concentration next time you add feed. Maybe just water them with water for half a week or so and then start back on the food. Don't let the pot dry out that much its falling over or the compost is coming away from the sides of the pot.

 

@HazyDaze wasn't wrong when he said hot compost