One feed for all

[SYZYGY]

I'm currently using Grower's Ark and getting good results, but looking to streamline my work flow and cut down on the amount of 5l nute bottles in my groom. 

A mix for the ladies in bloom, a mix for the veg tent, and a mix for the seedlings/cuts... wouldn't mind so much if I didn't work full-time but as it is, something's gotta give. 

 

I ran a perpetual flowering tent for a while, floating at 1.2 EC with Ionic. This worked quite well, I didn't even flush and the flower burned clean and smooth.

This led me to the idea of using a single feed from start to finish (a one-for-all A&B, such as Intense or Canna). 

 

How sweet it would be to just fill my 250l res with a 1.2 EC solution and use this for everything, using simple dilution ratios for the younger plants and potentially top-dressing hungrier, mature plants with Ecothrive Charge if they look a bit peckish. 

 

I imagine the use of a quality biostimulant would help, along with humic/fulvic acids in good root stims.  

 

Has anyone tried such a thing? Am I missing something obvious? 

 

[Nervous]

Some supplements (like humic/fulvics) are included in base nutrients where as others choose to sell separately. Begs the question - why? 

I think a lot of people will tell you that bottled nutrients are split up into a lot of separate products for profit. Take grow and bloom nutrients; you don't really need a tailored solution for each stage. Even worse, people have also suggested that cal/mg is deficient in coco nutes purposefully so that a cal/mg supplement can be sold. 

I can't say how much of the profit angle stuff is true tbh. Would make business sense to sell more products rather than an all in one. 

What you're after - the concept of bunging it all in for simplicity is what drives people towards living soil/no till. You just chuck everything in the soil and let rip! 
 

[catweazle1]

@Nervous

 

On the coco calmag thing, I prepped my coco myself and never had to calmag once with Ionic Coco nutes. I suspect it's lack of that prep in a lot of coco nute deficient cases. I'm trying Intense Coco nutes, which is one A&B formula, this time with their Foundation  root stim and some TNC Mycorr stuff.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Owderb
Quote removed

[Nervous]

2 minutes ago, catweazle1 said:

On the coco calmag thing, I prepped my coco myself and never had to calmag once with Ionic Coco nutes. I suspect it's lack of that prep in a lot of coco nute deficient cases.

That's a fair statement. By prep do you mean priming the coco with cal/mg and/or buffering it? 

[catweazle1]

Yeah, wash and buffer. I took the decision to assume that the coco was unprepared and do it myself. The grow I've just done was totally uneventful and yieldeed me 14.5ozs off two NL aiutos.... one yielded 8.5ozs. That was my first complete grow since the 90's and my first in coco that's been completed... had a few false strarts.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Owderb

[SYZYGY]

37 minutes ago, Nervous said:

What you're after - the concept of bunging it all in for simplicity is what drives people towards living soil/no till. You just chuck everything in the soil and let rip! 

 

Already sold many times over... but my current situation in this rental property makes it tricky. I've once had to move all my plants mid-flower, solo. How do you manage that with huge no till beds in an upstairs bedroom? If my time gets freed up a little I'll start small in my 50x100cm tent, but for now it's strictly coir. 

 

37 minutes ago, catweazle1 said:

I prepped my coco myself and never had to calmag once with Ionic Coco nutes

 

Mind if I ask what coco you use, and what EC your tap water is? 

0.15 - 0.18 EC here. I've never buffered Canna Pro Plus. Strangely, when I used Ionic, I didn't seem to need CalMag (but that was with CMH before moving to LED, different vars, different enviro). Calcium defs only really showed when the humidity stayed a bit higher than it should. 

Despite being told often that Grower's Ark is a complete feed and the soft water version having everything I need, if I cut the 0.5ml/l CalMag dose, deficiencies quickly follow. Add it back in, problem solved. 

Martin from GA suggested using the base feed at higher concentration, and a higher pH of 6.5. I've tried this a few times now and my plants suffered. 

 

Maybe Canna coco isn't as well-buffered as they make out, but washing and buffering coco all the time ain't for me. I'm trying to save time! 

[SYZYGY]

@GSZZ Hope you don't mind the tag mate, but I'd value your opinion/input on my original question if you get the chance  

[catweazle1]

@SYZYGY

 

Ugro Coco Bricks. The runoff readings of the raw stuff  when first washing has varied widely between batches, so I do it myself. The prep takes time but I get it back in a hassle-free grow... so far. My water EC is 0.6... classed as hard. My target pH's are 5-5.5 in veg and lower 6ish in flower. I know what you mean about time prepping time but I'm only doing two 20L worth of coco/perlite mixes. I would imagine it being a ballache if you were doing many more.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Owderb

[GSZZ]

Not really sure about your cal mag problem with GA - my water swings from 0.0 - 0.4 ec on the stick, I've never had a cal mag problem and I've filled plenty of tanks with 0.2> ec water! I've only ever suffered cal issues if I've tried to include something mineral based, it was potassium silicate last time. Soon as I dropped it out everything went back to normal. Oh and if the humidity gets too low, some vars are fickle.

 

As for the feed thing, your question is something I have thought about quite abit but unfourtnately never got the chance to put into action. I looked into it for the similar reason to yourself - its alot of bottles to have knocking about! To get to the point, if you think about how the CEC of coir works, changing ratios from like high N in veg to low N and high PK in flower or the other equally confusing ratios doesn't really make much sense - other than leaving the CEC devoid of elements it was once in abundance of. Some companies are ruthless and line people up for the yellow N deficient leaves or yellow spotty cal def.

 

A product like Growers Ark works well with differen't grow and bloom because the ratio of elements stays the same its the concentration that increases. IE the grow is 3 - 2 -3, the bloom is 4 - 3 - 4 so EC 1.2 of grow is weaker than EC 1.2 of bloom. Using an A&B for grow + bloom with the same NPK ratio for both stages wouldn't be too dissimilar to what GA does. TBH this grow + bloom thing is hydro specific, its usually just a single base feed that people use. Bruce Bugbee recommends 2 - 1 - 2 NPK, and he's a dude worth paying attention to.

 

Anyway, Im sorry I haven't been as comprehensive with my answer as I would've liked but this was only a fleeting log in! Check out Growth Technology Alpha Coco A&B that has a ratio of 5 - 3 - 5, thats what I was going to try but again never got the chance, I thought it sounded pretty good and a solid candidate. If you do try it let me know I'd be interested to see if it was worth adopting when I can set back up!

 

 

[Nervous]

1 hour ago, SYZYGY said:

huge no till beds in an upstairs bedroom?

One of my first no tills was in my bedroom in a 60x180 tent. I fit a 60x60x40 140L sack with handles in there. Worked a treat! I moved it all outside after two years of doing that only because I started introducing all kinds of critters to it (some of which were biters that I didn't want roaming about the house). 

[SYZYGY]

@GSZZ

 

For a 'fleeting log in' that was quite the reply, thanks. I'm going to get my water tested to hopefully shed some light on the calmag issue, but for now I trust my own observations. 

 

It makes total sense what you're saying about CEC and NPK ratios. I've never heard of GT Alpha Coco, is it fairly new? Reading up on their website, it contains organic as well as mineral nutrients - could you see that being a problem in a res? It's well circulated/flumed but the solution could be in there up to a week. 

 

When I need to restock on base feed I'll give it a try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained as they say. I've actually been thinking of increasing the organic input somehow with coco and this sounds like a good solution (pun intended). 

 

Thanks again mate. The majority of what I know about growing in coco has come from your informative posts and diaries  

[GSZZ]

59 minutes ago, SYZYGY said:

I've never heard of GT Alpha Coco, is it fairly new? Reading up on their website, it contains organic as well as mineral nutrients - could you see that being a problem in a res? It's well circulated/flumed but the solution could be in there up to a week. 

 

I think it might be a couple of years old now, I doubt that the "organic" nature of it will be a problem. Nutrient companies love putting a bit of seaweed extract in their products and saying it has organic nutrients in it from what I can tell about it etc i cant see why it wont be good stuff, the ratio is lovely and the seaweed + humic + fulvic will only make it better!

[Yosser Hughes]

5 hours ago, SYZYGY said:

I'm currently using Grower's Ark and getting good results, but looking to streamline my work flow and cut down on the amount of 5l nute bottles in my groom. 

A mix for the ladies in bloom, a mix for the veg tent, and a mix for the seedlings/cuts... wouldn't mind so much if I didn't work full-time but as it is, something's gotta give. 

 

I ran a perpetual flowering tent for a while, floating at 1.2 EC with Ionic. This worked quite well, I didn't even flush and the flower burned clean and smooth.

This led me to the idea of using a single feed from start to finish (a one-for-all A&B, such as Intense or Canna). 

 

How sweet it would be to just fill my 250l res with a 1.2 EC solution and use this for everything, using simple dilution ratios for the younger plants and potentially top-dressing hungrier, mature plants with Ecothrive Charge if they look a bit peckish. 

 

I imagine the use of a quality biostimulant would help, along with humic/fulvic acids in good root stims.  

 

Has anyone tried such a thing? Am I missing something obvious? 

 

canna ....... A+B  for the win every time in coco........ it really does the dope justice used correctly.

[SYZYGY]

@GSZZ The price doesn't seem too bad either, considering a recommended usage of 3ml/l (and not needing Extra Traces...) 

When I get some I'll try using just the base feed and see what transpires. 

 

Bruce Bugbee... knows his shit. Somehow I find the combo of his name, appearance and mannerisms make him strangely adorable  

 

@thekingofobsolete  Started my coco adventures with Canna A&B and got decent results to be honest, felt a bit out of balance at times. I've had far better results with Ionic and Grower's Ark, which might be down to experience, but I'd rather start from the best possible foundation if I'm going to use one mix of feed for all. 

[Yosser Hughes]

Just now, SYZYGY said:

@GSZZ The price doesn't seem too bad either, considering a recommended usage of 3ml/l (and not needing Extra Traces...) 

When I get some I'll try using just the base feed and see what transpires. 

 

Bruce Bugbee... knows his shit. Somehow I find the combo of his name, appearance and mannerisms make him strangely adorable  

 

@thekingofobsolete  Started my coco adventures with Canna A&B and got decent results to be honest, felt a bit out of balance at times. I've had far better results with Ionic and Grower's Ark, which might be down to experience, but I'd rather start from the best possible foundation if I'm going to use one mix of feed for all. 

aye horses for courses bach,m just set  in my ways as when i first ran water / coco / soiless, it was all that was about tbh,+ over the last few decades i think they got the shit tuned nicely.   atb.