Humans and Society Confuses Me

[rat in a hat]

It is such a shame isn't it that when people talk about real things like this people try to make a joke of it, that's society brainwashing at its best.. stupid really... but i do think more and more people are deciding to question what way we should live our lives.. and rightly so but the trouble is what realistic strategy could we use to dismantle the current hierarchy to allow us to implement our own ideas and laws.... that John Fire Lame Deer quote is brilliant , although i am white myself i still acknowledge it was the white man who destroyed a lot of this way of life @Autosinsummer

[botanics]

@rat in a hat

 

You can only do with what you have influence mate, ie think and act, if you 'see' something as contributing to that which goes against the grain and 'feel' it's wrong, then it is and you shouldn't do it else the lesson will be 'taught' (and it can be before or after that event as time doesn't really exist, merely a construct of the mind because it doesn't understand existence but tries to ...Einstein managed to settle it for many with space/time but importantly Einstein didn't think himself perfect either and why his mind fascinates me)

 

Engage, do not engage, you have the choice

 

Myself, I prefer to engage with that which I feel brings me light inside and not darkness

Edited April 24, 2017 by botanics
spelling errors

[harvestreaper]

On 4/23/2017 at 0:15 PM, botanics said:

 

What you feel is your individual truth mate, your reality is your very own universe and there is no truth the same as another's, merely an affinity, a perception that your truths align and in some parts they will, whilst in others they won't, but neither is 'The One Truth'  just a perception and a construct of the physical reactions of what your senses relay,

gotta say i disagree with this, there is one truth in most areas of life of course we cant all understand all of them but we share our understanding to create a larger proven understanding of it,,,example   you put your hand in fire you get burned ,,sun rises every morning  ,jump in water you get wet ,step in front of a moving train youll get messed up these are simple truths which are same for all ,,perception ,,opinion i agree are not truth ,,the value of truth is that it can be proven and it dont care what pre conceived ideas or opinions we have   that is also its  beauty ,,for me truth is reality and very much same for one an all 

[botanics]

@harvestreaper

 

You're welcome to your opinion mate and all part of the journey but don't try to understand, the moment you think you do is the moment you don't

 

You see, the only individual truth you can realise is the moment, once that passes it's not truth, yes you may recall a second ago in the memory banks but those memories are not truth, they are a construct of a reality once known.

 

The brain operates via 'brainstates' it cannot store all of the information recieved via the senses so being of a design we can only hope to wonder about, it stores the most important bits and fills in the gaps, that's not the truth though, that's a perception of it and this is done for every moment of your consciousness, until you become pure consciousness then only some of what there is will be revealed. 

 

Life is reflections both in the material and spiritual universe, like a mirror really, you mirror your own existence, it's reciprocal and intertwined, but all things are relative to you and the everything as there is no you, no me, no anyone just 'we'

 

[harvestreaper]

thanks for the reply @botanics i find your points interesting but i dont agree  i understand your perspective everything is moving ,its pointless  just exist,, thats a beutiful sentiment but maybe to sentimental for me  im probly just  too jaded  for  me the sun came up day i was born and now  near 50 years ltr its not missed a day  exact  same truth that was many many  moments/years ago ,i do think some of your points apply on individual basis ,but  for me truth is that tangible rock we hold onto in the ether of this crazy universe ,,,,i guess we could talk on this for a few weeks

[botanics]

Well that's the thing mate, it's a very personal journey is life and I suppose ultimately it's wherever happiness lays is where the 'truth' should be sought.

 

My reasons see for going on this path is because I've reviewed my life after having some epiphanies in the last few years, loads of them just rolled into eachother and been a tough time mentally

 

I've been a cunt like anybody can, I didn't intent too (still can be at times and reducing it with every lesson) but I haven't always been me so I was confused about who I was in the past (the element of control, narcissim, rejection following with depression, anxiety and a sense of failure as a result) and after reviewing things, tearing my soul apart really (nearly checked out a good few times with it all too because it's not an easy journey), have come to some conclusions (I've also been very fortunate in finding my missus during this period as she really is a beacon in the darkness and her story is one of much pain also, with a fear on a level I can't imagine... she is my master where this level is concerned as it's taken me with a questioning mind, all these years to get where I am, yet she already 'knew' from inside ).

 

I've discovered through my thinking that all of what has bound me in the chains that I've always felt but could not see was fear mate, all fear and it comes from the earliest of experiences which then were compounded by repetition (the plasticity of the brain in action), I was 'lost' really, a very emotional kid that shut them down because it wasn't explained to me, I wasn't shown why and how these 'feelings' are a good thing (I always saw feelings as weak and not good because of the fear, I'd known, which in turn expanded my ego) So I lived for thirty four years like that, then I had cancer and the world changed.  It changed because I suddenly realised that my time isn't infinite, the thoughts as I was being told I had it were racing, I wasn't worried, i just though I was going to have some time and then die and those thoughts mate were a plenty, rushing through the mind...all I could think of was what I needed to do before I kicked the bucket (as it happens I was overthinking and have been lucky) that was the beginning of my learning that has brought me to where I am today, in the interim, the universe has thrown much way and do you know what mate, every lesson I can attribute to my past and where I've gone wrong and done wrong as a result.

 

That wrong was not being true to myself, I lived a lie because I was not me and others have had hearts broken as result which I'm not proud of, but the guilt I've shed and I want to live 'true', to be good, to care to not worry and to not fear...this spiritual path I'm on I'm finding is bringing happiness and a confidence that I've never had, so it's the right one for me...

 

In my view see, if I can achieve the total annihilation of my fear then my body will be ready for the next journey and on it goes, round and around in this cosmic atomic soup we call everything. 'Me' the conscious is of two halves, my material conscious and my spiritual concious, the spiritual cannot be influenced via the material world and so there is no fear, there is no loss, there is just energy, what I seek is to balance that with the material that has always and will always be influenced via the material impact of others, the Yang if you will.

[harvestreaper]

hey @botanics    i read your intersting post the other day but id had a drink an didnt dare answer in case i put my foot in me mouth ,<probly still will>,its not for me to comment on your personal  journey,but dont be too hard on yourself    its sounds like  youve been brought down to reality with a bang   and those heavy pennies drop and its like  wow i was blind now i can see ,, forgive yourself your only  human  everything in your  soceity  was /is pushing you into the direction you found yourself aint like its your dna  were all respnsible for what were aware  of but like children were not guilty of what were ingnorant of ,, i  to  have done many bad things and not met a perfect person , some aint far off an some  are great blaggers but none perfect ,,,,,,i hope you get  full control of your fear it can be a real disability, remember it was put there and not natural state of mind ,i remember being broken down with panik attaks  and would be thinking what the hell am i scared of, i feared nothing in my concouis mind ,,thought theyd never end quite hellish really trying to have a normal conversation but feeling like you hanging off a cliffface with one fingertip, ,,,,before i got to that spot   i reached such a high level of concousness i felt  nearly astral,  only i found it was no use getting myself enlighted when all around me still in same spot so for me  all together we must go, and thats my personal journey ,,,for  a couple of reasons ,, one its no use being alone in enlightenment  and 2  you are to vulnerable in that state to sit amongst those that aint  ,its like putting a newborn baby in a pack of wolves  theyll eat you alive ,,,so i had to go backwards in my understanding to a degree,  back into the animal kingdom which is very frustrating  but was necerrary , its almost like you seen the future but you gotta come back and still operate in the present , i just try to hold onto/remember what little enlightenments ive realised along the way  and apply were possible ,,like you  i also think spirit an phyiscal  are seperate  but work beutifully together when balanced ,,i dont do organised religion but   i regard truth itself as a spirit church ,,when two or more  people talk with pure heart in truth with no agenda/ego  its human and  progress always seems to be made ,,when we try get over on each other manipuplate/hustle we down on animal level and there nothing there but winners an losers just like nature and the animal kingdom,,, we choose to be truthful to a person it involves freewill that why i regard truth as a spirit church its open 247 to every man woman child on planet , no locks on a door , no  money can be used and you can only enter of your own freewill  but this is only my understanding of it,,,

health  and happiness on your journey 

[botanics]

There's no 'foot and mouth' in those words there mate, that's from the heart and so always true, a connection through the ether, you take care too bud

[fidelandche]

For me Chomsky, sums this up well and I quote;

 

" As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as they please, and those who survive will be left to contemplate the outcome."

[Bird]

I agree with HR about facts.  You cant progress in education without coming to a deeper understanding of how they work than the OP gives. Each man cannot start afresh or there would be no such thing as progress.  

 

You build on the work of others.  Just like we don't make phones from scratch when we want to place a call.  There is no point - apart from it being impossible.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Bird

[harvestreaper]

2 hours ago, Bird said:

I agree with HR about facts.  You cant progress in education without coming to a deeper understanding of how they work than the OP gives. Each man cannot start afresh or there would be no such thing as progress.  

 

You build on the work of others.  Just like we don't make phones from scratch when we want to place a call.  There is no point - apart from it being impossible.

 right  ,,theres only two directions ,,backwards and forwards 

[Hir]

It's Plato's fault, his dam Republic, which is the template for all Western societies. It's taught in all major public schools, the people who will run and shape our world ,  and yet the wider society is pretty much oblivious to this abhorrent work.

 

Edited May 1, 2017 by Hir

[fidelandche]

This is good,

 

https://youtu.be/PqjdRAERWLc

[Ital]

Heard mentality is needed,  we'd be screwed if everyone wanted to pursue the arts.

 

[Nick Berry]

On 2017-4-24 at 4:49 PM, rat in a hat said:

It is such a shame isn't it that when people talk about real things like this people try to make a joke of it, that's society brainwashing at its best.. stupid really... but i do think more and more people are deciding to question what way we should live our lives.. and rightly so but the trouble is what realistic strategy could we use to dismantle the current hierarchy to allow us to implement our own ideas and laws.... that John Fire Lame Deer quote is brilliant , although i am white myself i still acknowledge it was the white man who destroyed a lot of this way of life @Autosinsummer

Your level of thought is dictated by social and hierarchical structures. Even if people mock your thoughts doesn't make them wrong. Flies eat dog shit doesn't make it something we should do.