the holy quran experiment

[Kaoticnzymes]

Well when you come to the realisation that religion is a lie and the main cause of war and divide in the world its worth pointing out. Im not judging them Im offering a truth and that is in no way comparable to worshipping a god, telling someone to believe in their self and create their own experiences isn't judging don't get it twisted bird

[Bird]

You have your beliefs and they have theirs. Neither takes precedent. That's the whole point. We are all equals.

Their rights are established in law and if someone has devoted their life to it they may not appreciate being told that they are "wrong" and full of lies. Religious tolerance they call it.

[botanics]

@@Bird

Whilst I agree with 'tolerance' and freedom of choice being absolutely correct, shouldn't that choice also be extended to those don't wish religion pushed upon them too ?

I remember being 'indoctrinated' at school, every morning the usual rigmarole of the 'assembly' and the usual guys of 'other denominations' excluded (or in the mind of a young 'un - having a beneficial repreave from the boring 'be scared' shite) from the rest, they would stand outside for others to gawk at and some idiots would always take the piss which must have had a psychological impact of some sort, being young and not having the grounding to understand. They were few in number where I was schooled and not a cosmopolitan area such as larger urban centres like cities etc and small minded mentality tended to prevail.

Yes, we all had to line up, almost like right dress when square bashing and stand and listen to the headmaster or one of his minions and nod...'Now children, bow your heads and say the lords' prayer' ...I wouldn't, wasn't my bag and I wasn't having anyone telling me what and how I should think either but I was FORCED via the state to attend, there was no 'opt out' for those who were not interested, no you HAD to do it unless for the reason above.

This 'indoctrination' was carried out from first attending school, the mind as it's re affirming the neural pathways being wired for a life of servitude and religion, as it has been in the past, the tool of enacting it...the fear, forever hard wired into my consciousness to make me a slave, to be controlled for those that don't subscribe to that religious dogma (or say they do, but actions speak otherwise) and to be afraid of my demise, because afterwards if I've been bad I'll go to hell...

Nah, on the whole religion is a useless, outdated control system that should be put in a box and kept there...not to say you can't believe, but a fancy building built by the taxes of those that couldn't scrape enough to get buy is not the teaching of what I see in the words being preached and by all means follow what the soul says, but don't push it on another

e2a typos

Edited September 10, 2016 by botanics

[zero]

[lasouris]

E2: In my personal opinion religion is usually the scapegoat rather than direct cause of confict and "numbnuttery`". Remember when Bliar (re)found jesus?

This is a great point. I remember in the 1970's and 80's many loyalist and republican prisoners in Northern Ireland would "find god" in an attempt to get out of a situation (parole etc), blair used god to get into a situation.

I was thinking that hospitals really are for atheists as religious people claim that they live and die by the mercy of their gods,but maybe I'm being to literal and not giving the religious enough room to maneuver.

Just my 2p

[Davey Jones]

Nah, on the whole religion is a useless, outdated control system that should be put in a box and kept there

Religions all have the same message but the bible and the like have corrupted that message

religious people claim that they live and die by the mercy of their gods

Some do sure but there are plenty of people who like the philosophy however God and religion are two separate things all together. If there is a God its not a human!

Lots and lots of people have the below experience, its interesting for sure

God likes to play hide-n-seek, but because there is nothing outside of God, he has no one but himself to play with! But he gets over this difficulty by pretending that he is not himself. This is his way of hiding from himself. He pretends that he is you and I and all the people in the world, all the animals, plants, all the rocks, and all the stars. In this way he has strange and wonderful adventures, some of which are terrible and frightening. But these are just like bad dreams, for when he wakes up they will disappear.

Now when God plays "hide" and pretends that he is you and I, he does it so well that it takes him a long time to remember where and how he hid himself! But that's the whole fun of it-just what he wanted to do. He doesn't want to find himself too quickly, for that would spoil the game. That is why it is so difficult for you and me to find out that we are God in disguise, pretending not to be himself. But- when the game has gone on long enough, all of us will WAKE UP, stop pretending, and REMEMBER that we are all one single Self- the God who is all that there is and who lives forever and ever.

You may ask why God sometimes hides in the form of horrible people, or pretends to be people who suffer great disease and pain. Remember, first, that he isn't really doing this to anyone but himself. Remember too, that in almost all the stories you enjoy there have to be bad people as well as good people, for the thrill of the tale is to find out how the good people will get the better of the bad. It's the same as when we play cards. At the beginning of the game we shuffle them all into a mess, which is like the bad things in the world, but the point of the game put the mess into good order, and the one who does it best is the winner. Then we shuffle the cards and play again, and so it goes with the world.

-Alan Watts

from "THE BOOK on the taboo against knowing who You are"

This was his simple way of explaining the ancient Hindu philosophy of Vedanta. After my mind exploding awakening and REMEMBERING that I am God I can TRULY attest that it is the truth. I felt as if my normal life was nothing but a game I was playing to entertain my God self. It was like...OMFG!! I REMEMBER. Total and utter realization. It was like my normal life was only one thought I was having in my God life. And if my God self wasn't thinking about my normal self it didn't even exist. We are all thoughts that our God selves are thinking! When your perception shifts into "God Mode" it is so unbelievable you almost cry.......Everything EXPANDS and your house/environment EXPANDS into what it really is! And you feel SO FREAKIN GOOD. And you say to yourself- "This is how it's SUPPOSED to be ALL THE TIME. You are still yourself, but you have no fears, doubts, or ego crap bogging you down! Almost like you peel off a veil of scum you've been wearing and looking through your whole life. and you know you have COME HOME.

Now most people who experience an awakening like this tend to eventually be sucked back into "normal" reality.....as I did. But you are never the same person again. Because now you KNOW you have found the truth you have searched for your entire life. No ifs, ands or buts. Like having a near death experience, you are forever changed. You will never fear death, that's for sure! One of the hardest things for me was trying to integrate my experience back into my daily life. At first you tend to go a bit nuts getting rid of "crap" in your life that you know now means nothing. I went out and bought ALOT of art and beautiful things for the house in an attempt to make it even a shadow of the way I know it REALLY is. I almost closed my business. It takes time for the physical ego to wrap it's little brain around THIS! But after several months of reflection and with the help of wonderful philosophers like Watts I think I have a grip on things. I have to balance between one reality and the other.....and am seeing the beauty in day-to-day life we tend to miss. I work less and enjoy more. I started painting after a 30 year WORK delay.....I sit in the Sun at least 10 minutes every day and just enjoy nature w/o thinking or worrying about the usual stupid crap. I hope that maybe the 2012 shift will be of our own perception, and we all can be who we REALLY are ALL THE TIME, as it should be!

E2A

Yeah DMT perhaps the wackiest subject on earth!

I amazed how people look at God as a man, woman, spirit or a being. God is nothing but a force, the life force that surrounds us, is inside us, and is inside of every both living and - in our eyes; dead, both on this planet, every other planet, and actually the universe itself and every possibly dimension. God is infinite consciousness, which we are all a part of. I believe the personalization of this force is done to make people believe, possibly to get more power to the corrupt churc. God is obviously (or at least; for some people's beliefs), not a human, not an entity, not a spirit and definately not some guy chilling in the heavens and manipulating and judging people because of their actions and belief or non-belief. This authorative look at God as a judge is relatively new, in historical context. I believe the lie of the existence of hell and eternal judging is just another scare technique used to recruit people, both in Christianity, Islam and several other religions. God is not anything, yet God is a part of everything.

I am even more amazed that many people refer to this force as a man, as this force is obviously of feminine qualities. There could perhaps be a spirit heigh in the hiararchy, or actually there are several, both good, bad and neutral. Do not mistake this for God's voice. There are an infinte number of spiritual beings, forces and things beyond our imagination that people mistake for God. God does not talk, think or judges. God just is. God is nothing but a force, a force of infinite counsciusness that we all are a part of, have always been a part of, and will always be a part of. It has no beginning and no end. In this context, praying to God has no effect, the praying only awakens your inner God. But perhaps this is exactly why praying, whether done traditional or through other means, does indeed work?

A often misquted saying from Jesus Christ is this: "Be still, and know that I am God". What he really said and meant, was that you should "be still", as in meditation, yoga, entheogens or any other mind-expanding technique, and in that context know that God is inside yourself. Actually, God is inside every human being, every animal, every bacteria, and even every rock.

YOU are God. Your friends are God. Your pet is God. The woods and the great natura is good. Treat them with respect, and you will be rewarded. Ask God for forgiveness and positive energies, and you will obtain nothing. Spread forgiveness and positivity, and you will obtain everything.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Davey Jones

[botanics]

@@Davey Jones

I know this too, but doesn't make for a 'productive' individual in the sense that the way the world is....absolutely true, when the bullshit is revealed, there's no going back...but is this not just the result of a release of chemicals in the brain thus affecting our conciousness ?

The reason I'm unsure is because I simply don't know whether the chicken came first or the egg on this one

[Davey Jones]

is this not just the result of a release of chemicals in the brain

Thats the most common thing people say, people who havent done it!

Its just an hallucination however if you speak with the people that have done it say Terence Mckenna he says its more real than real its fine to say that but please check it out for yourself! In other words you have no idea until you hav ebeen there!

The enlightened buddhists and what not who did DMT say its the bardo you enter

I am not proclaiming to know any truths mate just have an interest I never did DMT either however it seems to me if you do DMT enough times then you will have this experience is so common its alarming

I simply don't know whether the chicken came first or the egg on this one

I never heard an answer to the chicken and egg question my whole life until the other week when me and my son discussed it

Chicken is a bird

Birds descended from Dinosaurs

Dinosaurs laid eggs

Therefore the egg came first

Edited September 10, 2016 by Davey Jones

[botanics]

@@Davey Jones

Could go all the way back to the 'Primordial soup' and beyond really mate but yeah nice one...nah DMT I'm not familiar with, Psychedelics was tried in my teens, but that was the wrong time, was all ego then and only interested in 'getting off my face' kids eh but now hmm perhaps....I'm always for exploration, however things need fixing first, still some shit to sort and wouldn't want that detracting from the 'experience' in any way.

Something to ponder and some science to look for it seems or perhaps some Buddhist revelations upon it...anyhow this is a tangent really so sorry for the OP

Cheers Davey Jones

[Davey Jones]

Did you know the word Psychedelic literally means ''soul revealing'' ?

It has become to be known as mind expanding in recent years

however things need fixing first, still some shit to sort and wouldn't want that detracting from the 'experience' in any way.

Psychedelics can be the thing that forces the change

Depends on the issues as to which would be most useful, the disgrace is they are illegal

E2A

anyhow this is a tangent really so sorry for the OP

I don't think its that much of a tangent, the video is basically saying religious indoctrination is bullcrap but this is opinions and discussions based on experience the opposite of indoctrination

Baz hates religion but I don't think hes interested in the philosophy and other views outside of science (which is no offence to Baz) so I don't think he will be back to mind!

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

Edited September 10, 2016 by Davey Jones

[botanics]

@@Davey Jones

I didn't know that mate so taught me something you have

Aye I totally agree on the 'illegality' status and I suppose we could link this to the subject matter really in some way and the continued mantra of our societies following a pre disposed idea of what merits living and a good life perhaps...indeed there's no doubt been a lot lost due to the current model of 'civilisation' and it doesn't befit that way if peeps think for themselves instead, hence the agenda against mind exploration...yeah totally agree man, there's much to find out

[Bird]

@@Bird

Whilst I agree with 'tolerance' and freedom of choice being absolutely correct, shouldn't that choice also be extended to those don't wish religion pushed upon them too ?

I remember being 'indoctrinated' at school, every morning the usual rigmarole of the 'assembly' and the usual guys of 'other denominations' excluded (or in the mind of a young 'un - having a beneficial repreave from the boring 'be scared' shite) from the rest, they would stand outside for others to gawk at and some idiots would always take the piss which must have had a psychological impact of some sort, being young and not having the grounding to understand. They were few in number where I was schooled and not a cosmopolitan area such as larger urban centres like cities etc and small minded mentality tended to prevail.

Yes, we all had to line up, almost like right dress when square bashing and stand and listen to the headmaster or one of his minions and nod...'Now children, bow your heads and say the lords' prayer' ...I wouldn't, wasn't my bag and I wasn't having anyone telling me what and how I should think either but I was FORCED via the state to attend, there was no 'opt out' for those who were not interested, no you HAD to do it unless for the reason above.

This 'indoctrination' was carried out from first attending school, the mind as it's re affirming the neural pathways being wired for a life of servitude and religion, as it has been in the past, the tool of enacting it...the fear, forever hard wired into my consciousness to make me a slave, to be controlled for those that don't subscribe to that religious dogma (or say they do, but actions speak otherwise) and to be afraid of my demise, because afterwards if I've been bad I'll go to hell...

Nah, on the whole religion is a useless, outdated control system that should be put in a box and kept there...not to say you can't believe, but a fancy building built by the taxes of those that couldn't scrape enough to get buy is not the teaching of what I see in the words being preached and by all means follow what the soul says, but don't push it on another

e2a typos

I couldn't agree more about indoctrination in education, but had a different experience.

I started off attending these things and then fairly quickly found our from my (non-christian) friend(s) that they did the not have to attend, and also that some of them got extra days off school as well .

I went for that with both hands and feet as well. I did not claim any religion for more than a day or two and nobody really cared. One day I was jewish, then agnostic then Islamic. I was hindu at one point. Truth is I didn't give a shit and neither did anyone else really except a few of the parents.

Might have had to get a note from my mum but I dont remember it. Just hanging out with the non-christians was enough at my school afair.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Bird

[botanics]

@@Bird

Aye we couldn't get away with it mate , it was attempted

It's probably changed a lot, I mean it's nigh on 25 years since I was done with school, but oh man my primary and infant 'education' was a very small town minded affair, favouritism etc...you know the usual kids who's parents rubbed shoulders with the teachers, nod and wink like, observant I tend to be and indeed noticed it and felt it too bud, alienated me mate and thus I disengaged...there will be others too, many of them and I just wonder sometimes what could be if balance is applied equally to all human beings

[Boojum]

I'm all for the right of personal belief, but it's not really a level playing field when, as an agnostic (leaning towards atheism), religions condemn my 'soul' to eternal torment just for not believing in their God. That's a pretty harsh punishment for my own personal belief (or lack thereof)... I absolutely believe in the right to personal belief, what anyone else chooses to believe is none of my business. It's just a shame that organised religion doesn't treat my beliefs with the same courtesy and respect.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Boojum

[Bird]

I'm all for the right of personal belief, but it's not really a level playing field when, as an agnostic (leaning towards atheism), religions condemn my 'soul' to eternal torment just for not believing in their God. That's a pretty harsh punishment for my own personal belief (or lack thereof)... I absolutely believe in the right to personal belief, what anyone else chooses to believe is none of my business. It's just a shame that organised religion doesn't treat my beliefs with the same courtesy and respect.

I think that some probably do booj