Respecting Beliefs

[Victor Kruger]

Sometimes respect rather than just always blindly given needs to be earned, and sometimes it turns out thats just not possible.

forget who said it but always rang true to me.

[Bird]

That's just an excuse for having a go at someone.

e2: It says to strangers "I have no respect for you" and my interpretation of that is, this is my game so fit in or pay the price.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Bird

[mr.gr33n]

i always respect people until they give me a reason not to,

strangers - no such thing, just a friend i don't know yet,

but i unfortunately have yet to meet a women who didn't break her promises,

who didn't walk away from me, who didn't try and rip my heart out.

509/2

[gabinoo]

Wow, that's a drift from the original topic

..

[Bhang Buddie]

One problem with religion, it's man made if 'GOD'(?) had devised it would it have been so fucked up ? As was once said, 'Religion is the opiate of the masses'

[Guest jacks lad]

are all our beliefs about religion and god, religion was not in my thoughts when i saw the thread title, maybe belief is all about religion but not in my house.

[mr.gr33n]

it's more than belief for me since it's the truth,

if believing isn't you're thing, walk on

have a great day all

[mr.gr33n]

One problem with religion, it's man made if 'GOD'(?) had devised it would it have been so fucked up ? As was once said, 'Religion is the opiate of the masses'

you got that 100% correct, you're current idea of 'religion' is tainted with mans rules, not gods rules,

but this is way to heavy for 08:24

[Guest Theokoles]

Religion was not in my thoughts when i read the thread title but its an apt subject.

Its not easy for individual or a state to give clarity or consistency to what is or isn't acceptable or a proportionate way to express oneself, due to cultural inconsistency among other things. I have the freedom to express myself in a way that shocks, offends and even disturbs but if i do that in a way like Hebdo.it could be deemed a disproportionate expression with some of these films and cartoons that have been depicted of Mohamed. Others have to tolerate some ridicule but when it goes beyond humor into gratuitous and offensive depictions, this is when a boundary is crossed as it doesn't contribute to any form of public debate, capable of furthering progress in human affairs..and could even be deemed to be inciting religious hatred, something that wont be tolerated.

The case of Otto-Preminger-Institut v Austria.

http://62.217.125.52/coe/archive/files/f0d18f381f7faa97e052ba6eec7391db.pdf

[Arnold Layne]

Sorry, don't want this to turn into a shitfest but it could. Bit drunk and just something that I've been thinking about, it could go horribly wrong. Any abuse and I will kill the thread.

But I've been thinking about 'respecting other people's beliefs'

I do absolutely respect the right for people to believe whatever they want. I respect the right to belief.

But that doesn't necessarily mean I have to respect the beliefs themselves.

If someone believes something that I find offensive, or that I just simply disagree with then I cannot respect that belief. I can respect their right to have that belief, but I can't respect the belief itself.

And belief doesn't really matter, it's how you act on a belief that matters. Actions matter, not beliefs.

Sorry, like I said, bit drunk again

In broad agreement with you on this Boojum mi old muckah

Just a couple of points (I speak as a Christian, an ordained one at that). First point: in order to respect/disrespect a belief, one must first understand exactly what that belief is, and what its nature is. Its all to easy to assume stuff about what folks believe. If I say that I am a Christian, its very easy to jump to the conclusion that I believe in 7 day Creation, a Trinitarian Godhead, a virgin birth, Incarnation and physical resurrection, a literal heaven, and a literal hell. And so on and so forth. But the fact is, I believe none of those things. They are all man made ideas. I don't believe in an inspired, inerrant Bible, either. I am happy to explain my views on all of those points and many more, but please realise that to respect or disrespect, one must first know what it is that you are respecting/disrespecting.

Second point: My study/reading of late has been ~ in part ~ about the call of the historical Jesus. What exactly did Jesus the man of Nazareth "call" people to do, what response did he seek? This is not so easy as might at first appear, because one is faced with the fact that all the Gospels were written post "Resurrection" (whatever that event entailed, there isn't room in this post to go further), and reflect a growth in dogma and myth. One has to get beneath the words and dig out the facts. But I digress ....., my studies have led me to the tentative conclusion that the historical Jesus rarely, if ever, called people to "believe" in this or that doctrine. The verbs he used were words like "Follow", "Do", "Love", "Forgive" and suchlike. In other words, his call was to follow his example. He left not a single written word, let alone a creed to be "believed".

About "Private Religion", I oppose the idea completely. The Jesus of history was not a respectable, quiet man. He was a social, political and religious rebel, a man who so stirred up the religious and political leaders of the day that they had him bumped off. He had no respect for religiosity, orthodoxy or being a polite and socially acceptable person. He broke rules left, right and centre, and called his followers to do likewise. (Twice?) he drove money changers out of the Temple with whips, he used derogatory words to describe the leaders of the day, and he (how dare he??!!) mixed with the socially unacceptable (lepers, tax gatherers. women etc).

In calling myself a Christian, I judge my integrity by the response of the world around me. When the whips and nails come out, and the cross beckons, then I think I will be on the right lines. "Respectable Christianity" is a contradiction in terms. In loving God (whatever is meant by that word, I know not) and my neighbour (whoever stands next to me and in need I can meet), I would expect to be disrespected. For to do so sets me in total opposition to the world of Materialism, Atheism and Consumerism, let alone the world of austere, orthodox doctrinaire Christianity. I seek to defend the poor, oppose all who would divide woman from woman, and stand for global peace, Pacifism. In so doing I expect no other than to be treated as Jesus was. Fitted up, flogged and finished off.

Respect and true Religion are non-compatible, mutually exclusive, and contradictory. "Respect" is for religious hypocrites.

Shalom

[Guest Morten Arthursson]

I believe that if I live right I feel right and to do that I must live and let live.I do enjoy a good doorstep debate though

[Bhang Buddie]

Eleven things women in Saudi Arabia cannot do; according to fascist 'Khazi Laws'.....

Women in Saudi Arabia are registering to vote for the first time in history, more than four years after King Abdullah granted equal voting rights.

They will be allowed to vote in municipal elections due to take place in December and can also stand as candidates.

"[Voting is] a dream for us," Jamal Al-Saadi, the first woman to register in Medina told the Saudi Gazette. "[it] will enable Saudi women to have a say in the process of decision-making."

Human rights campaigners have welcomed the move, but warn there is still a long way to go in the fight for gender equality in the conservative Muslim nation.

Saudi Arabia has an abysmal human rights record, particularly with regards to protecting women. Although in recent years the rights of women have been incrementally extended, their actions are still severely restricted.

In a country where a woman cannot even open a bank account without her husband's permission, here are several other things women in the Muslim kingdom are still unable to do:

Go anywhere without a chaperone

Saudi women need to be accompanied by a male guardian known as a 'mahram' whenever they leave the house. The guardian is often a male relative and will accompany women on all of their errands, including shopping trips and visits to the doctor.

Such practices are rooted in "conservative traditions and religious views that hold giving freedom of movement to women would make them vulnerable to sins," according to The Guardian.

In one extreme case, a teenager reported that she had been gang-raped, but because she was not with a mahram when it occurred, she was punished by the court. The victim was given more lashes than one of her alleged rapists received, the Washington Post reports.

The Saudi Arabian government recently announced that it was considering lifting restrictions on women that would allow them to travel without the approval of their relatives, but human rights groups warn the move is likely to be vetoed by senior clerics.

Drive a car

There is no official law that bans women from driving but deeply held religious beliefs prohibit it, with Saudi clerics arguing that female drivers "undermine social values".

In 2011, a group of Saudi women organised the "Women2Drive" campaign that encouraged women to disregard the laws and post images and videos of themselves driving on social media to raise awareness of the issue in an attempt to force change. It was not a major success.

Saudi journalist Talal Alharbi says women should be allowed to drive but only to take their children to school or a family member to hospital. "Women should accept simple things", he writes for Arab News. "This is a wise thing women could do at this stage. Being stubborn won't support their cause."

Wear clothes or make-up that "show off their beauty"

The dress code for women is governed by a strict interpretation of Islamic law and is enforced to varying degrees across the country. The majority of women are forced to wear an abaya – a long black cloak – and a head scarf. The face does not necessarily need to be covered, "much to the chagrin of some hardliners," says The Economist. But this does not stop the religious police from harassing women for exposing too much flesh or wearing too much makeup.

The dress code was extended to all female television presenters earlier this year. The king's advisory body, the Shoura Council, ruled that the women should wear "modest" clothes that do not "show off their beauty", according to Arab News.

Interact with men

Women are required to limit the amount of time spent with men they are not related to. The majority of public buildings including offices, banks and universities have separate entrances for men and women, the Daily Telegraphreports. Public transportation, parks, beaches and amusement parks are also segregated in most parts of the country. Unlawful mixing will lead to criminal charges being brought against both parties, but women typically face harsher punishment.

Go for a swim

Reuters correspondent Arlene Getz describes her experience of trying to use the gym and pool at an upmarket Riyadh hotel: "As a woman, I wasn't even allowed to look at them ('there are men in swimsuits there,' a hotel staffer told me with horror) — let alone use them."

Compete freely in sports

Earlier this year, Saudi Arabia proposed hosting an Olympic Games without women. "Our society can be very conservative," said Prince Fahad bin Jalawi al-Saud, a consultant to the Saudi Olympic Committee. "It has a hard time accepting that women can compete in sports."

When Saudi Arabia sent its female athletes to the London games for the first time, hard-line clerics denounced the women as "prostitutes". While they were allowed to compete, they had to be accompanied by a male guardian and wear a "Sharia-compliant" sports kit that covered their hair.

Try on clothes when shopping

"The mere thought of a disrobed woman behind a dressing-room door is apparently too much for men to handle," says Vanity Fair writer Maureen Dowd in 'A Girl's Guide to Saudi Arabia'.

Other more unusual restrictions include:

• Entering a cemetery
• Reading an uncensored fashion magazine
• Buying a Barbie

However, explains Dowd, everything in Saudi Arabia "operates on a sliding scale, depending on who you are, whom you know, whom you ask, whom you're with, and where you are".

But things are slowly beginning to modernise in a country that has historically had some of the most repressive attitudes towards women. "Women in Saudi Arabia are highly educated and qualified," says Rothna Begum from Human Right Watch. "They don’t want to be left in the dark."

http://www.theweek.co.uk/60339/eleven-things-women-in-saudi-arabia-cannot-do?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=TBROS

[Gram Paw smurf]

Respecting beliefs?

I thought that was something we in western culture just use as rhetoric as to why our own beliefs should be respected while we don't actually give a fuck about anyone's who's beliefs differ.

N save the women this n that chatter for the therapists, "women think" all sorts of different shit n it probably aint much different from men most the time.

Shit they aint even been allowed to vote in our most "enlightened" versions of our convoluted attempt at democracy for a century yet so they aint much more than a step ahead of the most chauvinistic of societies on the planet, n most surely each have an individual view of the world around them, just like the rest of us.

Generalising such things doesn't tend to show ones being above anything let alone that which they've generalised about.

cheers,...............gps

[The storm-tossed mouse]

come a day...

you make sounds at me and I hear music because you design it so...

come a day

you will have deigned or designed your movements to make dance,

because you needed to...

because it made you you...

come a day

come a day it came through because you knew what you believed...

and that day there's a thing as holding it in your massive sleave...

massive things like singles sleaves...single slaves like you believe,

the ace is on the heart...

rhymes with

heart

rhymes with...

if you're on it on the day...

you might be before me looking back..

you might be before me looking back...

[The storm-tossed mouse]

Well i AM before you looking back right now dude...

and given that i am supplied with different variations of the same herbage that dragged you out like a lazy hiccup from me before,

i will re-visit you in my thoughts during this meandering visit to this site from time to time, and fully expect to be enamoured, once informed, of your import and beauty, for such qualities are quite clearly there residual in you.

if i had a hamster i would name it nibblin' norman and fully anticipate it being of a rowdy enough character as to set about at least one of the two residing cats in so fearsome a manner as to have them attempt head-games with myself such as "weeping kitten", "displayer of symptoms of illness" and any other walking-under-feet type of attention-grabbing that generally garners enough of proximity and time as to make a non-necessary and therefore IMPORTANT moment of time. Once it became clear that they were expected to confront the terror of nibblin' norm without help from me, that i was in fact in favour of the hamster's territorial ambitions, i would then expect them to turn to the trickier task of confronting norm's aggressive tendencies with force of their own. it is, clearly, a fight they could win with ease, what with claws and general sheer size, and even given nibblin' norms extremely (especially in a hamster) aggressive tendencies, but it is in this, in the adoption of just the right amount of "necessary force", that i would hope for the really complicated, and empathetic, behaviour from they the cats.

to accommodate the bolshie, bullying, chaotic, sadistic, rip-roaring and generally hell-raising behaviour of the mighty nibblin' norm without killing him, that would be the task.

I'm not a dresser of animals, but i would like to see norm in a little leather jacket or something, perhaps with wee bovver boots.

I suspect that's why i don't have a have a hamster, so as to avoid the disappointment and deadly irony of norm being just that...THE norm...

you don't always get what you want

but i do get me some satisfactions....