petition- uk grow 4 plants legally at home

[mustangbob]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104349

since the petition has reach over 100000 the parliment are going to have a new debate to waste some more time...

least we will have the chance to debunk more of their myths.

Parliament will debate this petition on 12 October 2015.

You'll be able to watch online at parliamentlive.tv

now is the time to lobby your mps.
create a fuss in the media and social networks.
make it a hot topic in the minds of the government.

another cannabis petition is about to go live soon...
make sure to sign the new one to when it goes live...
i will update with a link when it happens.

it wont amount to much but the pressure will grind down the government and they will have to think very carfully how they handle it and what they say as now they know we will go away research and debunk their arguments..
they are on the backfoot and can only lose more ground in future.
the pressure will bring the end goal closer each time it is applied!

please support this if you can!
even thought its only going to be debated, the numbers if high enough will play on their minds!
as they know only a small percentage of the population even vote on the e-petitions so the numbers show a larger picture of what public opinion is.

and the last 2 petitions of this nature only reached just over 1000 and 28000 respectivly last time...
its 213000 and climbing a vote a min average this time.
showing a huge change in public opinion and demonstrating how many are will to get involved.

thanks for your time
show your support please

EDIT- new petition uk

Hi,

I've made a petition – will you sign it?

Click this link to sign the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/108139/sponsors/gelcQhLkiWTdIidQ51

My petition:

be able to grow 4 flowering cannabis plants for personal use in privacy of home

this would be in line with our human rights that should allow us the right to a 'private and family life'
but
0 tolerance on sales of all drugs.
stopping street dealers should be first intended goal to address the present harm to communties

letting average joe take the moral high ground and not prop up the blackmarket by buying from street dealers would improve the financial situation for the user and family, drug dealers suffer,economy is stronger, money stays in circulation, harm is reduced
the situation allows governments platform to address most harm caused by the cannabis industry and protecting the young like with alcohol and cigs.
laws should be the same as homebrewing alcohol.
limited and controlled.
zero tolerance on sale!

--

Click this link to sign the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/108139/sponsors/gelcQhLkiWTdIidQ51

[Twisted Rizla]

Another fucking petition?

[Superdedupity]

I actually went to change.org to start a petition against petitions but I had to register so I couldn't be arsed.

[mustangbob]

yes purly to make the debate harder, that was achieved by first said petition.

the more responses back from government gives us more room to de bunk and the government will have to take great care commenting on each as not to trap themselves or to back track on what they said previous.

the more pressure the more responses and then more de bunking that will reduce the argument down until they have no ground left to hang on to!

the more we make them talk the more they will pin themselves into a corner.

this is how you win in law and politics!

trap with their own words to stop the backtracking then debunk and wait for next response.

eventually they lose more ground bringing the eventual date over legality forward.

seems a pain but only thing we can do tbh

and tbh only dealers should see this as negative!

and imo dealers are the scum that has made our government take the draconian stance in the first place!

i suggest anyone who really wants this to commit its the only way to win.

mps all over the countrie , papers and activist websites are flooding them with articles like this-

i sit here this afternoon with a nice cup of tea, wondering what to think ? how to respond? who to say it too?
the government announce they are to debate legalization of cannabis... again...
to us average joes it gives a glimper of hope but we know really it means nothing!
The debate will centre around the wrong issues and with the wrong views and fueled by mis-information that at best is misleading and at worst takes mental gymnastics to work out what and how the selective reasoning reduces common sense to the point stalemate time and time again.

quote from the independant:
The Government’s official response to the petition was negative. It read: “Substantial scientific evidence shows cannabis is a harmful drug that can damage human health. There are no plans to legalise cannabis as it would not address the harm to individuals and communities.”

now lets look at this harm a little bit from average joes point of view and then weigh it all up on your scales...

its true lots of people live in poverty because they use money for cannabis.
its true it effects children involved in those families.
its true that money goes into the blackmarket instead of staying in circulation.. the affects of this go without saying.
black market money funds other illegal operations here and abroad.. again affecting the lower classes of society more often than not but im not going to go into detail on these subjects just touch base with them.
its also true a small percentage of cannabis users will experience difficulties with mental health possibly made worse by cannabis use and in a small percentage of cases from within the group of people who do experience difficulties can say the cannabis triggered the difficulties.

i will not deny the above.
any law around drug use should be about harm reduction and the enforcement of said laws should not be more damaging than the difficulties that they are trying to protect the public from or it makes no sense.

now i will paint a picture for you...
a young man who has a weakness for cannabis.
maybe even is on benefits so has little money.
he is of the lower classes of society and it seen and treated as such.
he dosent contribute to the system only takes.
also he is labeled a criminal.
maybe he has had trouble with the law regarding cannabis.
ultimately he has the label of being an un-desireable.

now lets look deeper...
the man uses cannabis, maybe because he has problems or pain and he finds it helps.
or maybe it just increases his sense of happiness and wellbeing.
after all it shows by the amount of people on anti depressants that generally the affects of the world is hard on the soul and most need help to alleviate this.
its not going to go away. stress management is needed by modern humans for obvious reasons that again i wont go into.
back to average joe...
he looks at his use of cannabis and the harm to the economy, himself, his family ect.
what option has he if he is to continue to use cannabis?
the only conclusion any right minded person would be to grow your own.
it feeds the economy, money is kept in circulation, the blackmarket suffers, money is freed up improving the quality of life for the user and his family.

but on the other hand...
its illegal and seen as worse than going to a dealer in the laws eyes!
nevermind your being responsible, reducing harm to you and others, helping the community by not encouraging dealers, boosting economy with all the soil ,nutrients and other items you now spend money on.
you are punished for taking the moral high ground and refusing to be apart of and feed a corrupt system.
infact punished more than if you was propping up the corrupt system that is the blackmarket by buying from a street dealer!

now lets slip into the twighlight zone for a minute..

now imagine average joe could legally grow weed.
now it would not affect his family or his pocket.
he moves up the social heiracy with new confidence.
he sees all the old dealers fade away into the back ground.
and now he grows and supplys patients with medicine for income that is taxed.
he now is a contributer and is seen as such.
he is a civil servant helping the needy and has position.
he is a productive human and a happy one.

now the big shift here is the legality!
now can you not see in most cases the law and the enforcement of such laws causes more harm than good.
that is unjust and is not fit for purpose.
its causing more of a problem that the substance it claims to be saving people from.
now we are told weed is the biggest problem and hashish was not as bad and we should have stay with that.
now i will put it to you that it is your war on drugs that removed hash from our streets, tbh most i know would prefer good quality hash as it is cheaper.
the drug war 5 or even 10 years ago, after a few high profile busts removed important trade connections with the uk and cut the profitability to risk ratio of hash dealers.
now thousands of people started to grow cannabis to fill the market.
just look at the figures, your figures!
the hash went because of you...
the amount of growers went up to the point we now export from here!
all these number are on your hands.
thats the effects clear on paper of your war on drugs.
you have filled the streets with strong weed.
every action has an equal and opposing reaction and all that.
now if we are to believe the rise in mental health problems is from us smoking weed and not hash that was far safer..
then again its on your hands.
again i urge you to look at the figures and stats your so proud of!
they can tell a different story if you look properly.
you can clearly see the affects and harm caused by the laws and enforcement itself when looked upon from your own position and view point as to why it remains illegal!


now i urge you to look at the world model and you will see
legalization does not increase the levels of mental illness nor does it harm communitys or encourage more teens to use drugs.

now no right minded person can deny the medical application of cannabis. if you do your simply not in touch with the real world.
if cannabis had no history with man and it was discovered in the rainforest today without all the fixed notions about it, it would be hailed as a master achievement in science!
the amount of uses not just medical it is literally gobsmacking and could fuel a whole new business age for so many countries that need it and need it now.

to put it simply average joe wants to be good and on the right side but you dont allow him to!
i will also say the war on drugs is lost, it was lost long ago, that happened right at the time socially we decided without your input that cannabis was here to stay.
we the people will smoke no matter on the legal viewpoint that exists in government at the time.
stop wasting precious resources on fighting a war only you are fighting in.
it really is laughable.
you really have no control over the matter but we are still willing to side with you should you make the right decisions!
it takes real men to do that, to sit and reach common ground and mutual understanding.
so while you twiddle your thumbs arguing over your assumed power we will carry on and do as always,
but when your ready to accept the outcome then we will sit and be real men and sort out the details and even put the power back in your hands.


your rebuttals of late hold no leverage , even in scientific circles to date any trusted resaerch has been in favour of cannabis legalisation and medical application.
the overwhelming concensus is that harm from cannabis is slim to none.
ten potatoes has more toxins that 1g of weed.
cigarettes?
alcohol?
prescription opiates?
deaths from asprin or paracetamol 20p a bottle anywhere?

and imo the potential for abuse is the same as anything...
yes anything!!

sugar, caffiene you name it.
now is the time to grow up.
and the real question the public want to know is are you with us or against us?
the choice is yours
either way the outcome is the same.
now will you work with us to reduce harm from cannabis and also the harm that arises purely because of the legal situation at hand

this is the only debate or questions you need to look at!
do you want to turn these undesirables into productive and contributing members of society and also reduce harm and to provide much needed care for sick members of society and to become a country that is pioneering research in to new medicines with real prospects across the boards?

i say the only other option is madness...
after all isnt just repeating the same thing and expecting a different outcome really just madness.

the sad thing is most expect the government wont legalise until they find a way to profit from it like cigs and alcohol.
if it turns out to be the case in the end ... shame on you

imo only pushing can break resistance.

when the push is more than resistance we will have a break away that cant be stopped

if a frenzy on facebook ,twitter and others starts the media soon jump on the bandwagon and then this garnishes more voters and also makes an impression on the government.

more public the better.

provoking a reaction.

making them say more than they want to.

it not about the petition at all just about checking the stance of the powers at be to find weakness and force a hand

using intelligence, legalese and even police style tactics is the only way to trap them on their terms.

and only this ever leads to change on anything!

indeed its the only thing that ever has!

benjamin franklin said: democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.

for liberty to win over democracy we need to be well armed and put the democracy in a position of shame by their own virtues and words,

only when they are faced with this will the tide turn

Edited September 10, 2015 by mustangbob

[Hir]

OP - They wont have to think carefully what to say, they will say NO! All they will have to think carefully about is to how to phrase the answer to make their 'decision' sound considered.

[Twisted Rizla]

yes purly to make the debate harder, that was achieved by first said petition.

the more responses back from government gives us more room to de bunk and the government will have to take great care commenting on each as not to trap themselves or to back track on what they said previous.

the more pressure the more responses and then more de bunking that will reduce the argument down until they have no ground left to hang on to!

the more we make them talk the more they will pin themselves into a corner.

this is how you win in law and politics!

trap with their own words to stop the backtracking then debunk and wait for next response.

eventually they lose more ground bringing the eventual date over legality forward.

seems a pain but only thing we can do tbh

and tbh only dealers should see this as negative!

and imo dealers are the scum that has made our government take the draconian stance in the first place!

I take it you're fully aware of all the petitions we've got running on this site?

Welcome, by the way

[GreenVision]

4 Plants !!..

Sorry folks, although a well dressed SCROG my yield a good smoke to last until the next one is down I grow for myself and kin only, and I will grow what I like.

Taking away a law that states no plants and replacing it with one that says 4 is not a step in the right direction for me.

I love growing for the results and the hobby, and only being able to grow 4 plants still gives those corrupted and greedy the ability to punish me for growing Cannabis.

Fuck that. Its leave me to grow what I want or Fuck off and I'll do it illegally.

Sorry to be so blunt, but a lighter law is no different from the current one.

GV.

[stummer]

Too many people have been nicked and had their lifes ruined to roll over. 4 plants 8 plants 800 plants? Who cares its not hurting anyone fuck off and leave us alone.

[Superdedupity]

You seem to be labouring under the impression that we live in reprentative democracies governed by popular rule.

We're just not, are we? :-)

[mustangbob]

thanks for the welcome

yes 4 plants is low but its not about what we want its about giving ideas of what they may agree too.

and a limited system, controlled the same as homebrewing alcohol, simply is the best way of getting government support.

it removes profit on black market, help keep youth away from drugs, supports the economy,

but most of all would give a platform to work with.

i.e only targeting large growers- saving millions

gives a system where you can apply to get a licence to grow.- controlled

its limited in the same way alcohol is with homebrewing.

it gives back human rights we should have anyway.

but most of all the platform reduces harm and allows targeted recovery plans for the right people, that can be accessed if wanted.

average joe can provide for himself with no worrys and safe in the knowledge he is not funding undesirable and unscrupulous peoples.

also changing the label of druggie ect and turning these into respectable and productive people in the laws eyes.

as a first step i would welcome this.

and it gives a good test run for full legalization in the future.

data of first sweep can be analysed and laws adjusted or relaxed as needed depending on the facts.

a proper test run

and something they may just be able to agree on as the sticking point at the moment is really harm reduction for children and removing dealers while controlling the intake of users and offering the correct support and education for those who want to kick the habit.

they will not give us what we want it will have to be a meet in the middle arrangement first!

but like i said even if it comes to nought then we still have the hope of having even more things with to debunk their position in the future!

sorry for any inconvenience i may have caused

[ursus1000]

As I get older,I find anarchy far more attractive.Grow as much as you want,and enjoy.

[mustangbob]

yeah i used to think the same but im getting old and with the rest of the world waking up i feel im missing out and really want to just to be left alone to grow

i dont want win lottery or have nice car or earn lots of money, i just want to grow my veg, feed myself and grow my own weed and plod on the rest of my 40ish hoped years left on this revolving ball, spiraling through space and time!

then maybe get mushrooms legal again

tbh i dont care what the details of the law is as long as i can just grow personal and be left to it.

[bearukc]

This country and 135 others entered into treaties never to allow the legalisation of drugs. these treaties have been in force since the 30s and I doubt anything is going to change. The main issue for us is the police and whether they can be bothered to uphold the 'law'. I would argue that the more people we can encourage to grow, the harder the job for the police.

It may be time better spent lobbying tokers to start growing than lobbying politicians to legalise.

[mustangbob]

i have often thought that part of the reason is to save face , as our government pressured afghanistan,morroco, columbia.... ect to clamp down and tackle their own drug problems as the effect on our own countries.

after forcing them to give up great profits and such if they legalize here and make profit from it will just make them look silly.

after all we already have a reputation of doing things then going to war with others who try the same.

i.e expanding territory by force- australia, india ,south africa ect

then any country who trys the same we come down hard!

like other countries are not allowed to progress in the same manner we did!!

very 2 faced

now if they legalize the weed all that pressure america and uk (eu) put on them other countries would have been for shit and only to limit the growth and profit of said country imo

the embargos they enforced or pushed others into accepting is now keeping them stuck from drawing profit from cannabis!!

they cant profit so they have no desire to change the law.

[Abe Froman]

a system where you can apply to get a licence to grow.- controlled

its limited in the same way alcohol is with homebrewing.

but homebrewers don't need a license and ( i'm going out on a limb here ) are never hassled by the filth.

if you think putting your name on a list for successive powers to bust at their leisure ( when they change their minds & decide nobody can grow anymore ) is a good idea , then you need to read more George Orwell etc.

I would argue that the more people we can encourage to grow, the harder the job for the police.

It may be time better spent lobbying tokers to start growing* than lobbying politicians to legalise.

* and more than 4 or 9 plants please.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Abe Froman