Aurora Ruderalis Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 What is the absolute best hps bulb available for the mini max ballast. Don't really intend to veg only flower really. Is it worth getting a 150 mh as well just in case I do a bit of veg.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badders Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Looked at datasheets for ge lucalux osram vialox both state 15000 lumens 150lm/W before ballast & refector losses Dont think yoiu will find much variation in spectrum or eff. good luck dude, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indicaderek Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Thinking of trying some of the 250w Iwasaki Eye lamps at 6500k (aka Eye Colour Arc) myself which are popular for reef aquariums and sell for about £30 atm, they do a 150w equivalent (model 55611 - MT150D - 6500k) but the best price I have seen them is over £50 The 250w lamp only puts out 18k or so lumens but with a colour rendering index of 90 which is about as close to daylight as any lamp available today, only minor issue is they filter out a lot of UV which may be beneficial for our plants trichome production so am not sure if you would find similar MH or CMH lamps with less UV filtering. Question is whether these lamps will work on a given ballast too. Interesting question really as the more I read about plants, lamps and lumens the more I am learning that its not about lumens at all but more about the wavelengths that plants can actually use as lumens only measure light wavelengths visible to the human eye and is a different thing entirely hence all these purple/red/blue led panels we are seeing today which having learned the basics about photosynthetic active radiation, are making LED look more and more interesting. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurora Ruderalis Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 @@Indicaderek @@Badders Thanks for the replies folks, still a bit of Google research to do but the vialox is looking pretty nice... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badders Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Thinking of trying some of the 250w Iwasaki Eye lamps at 6500k (aka Eye Colour Arc) myself which are popular for reef aquariums and sell for about £30 atm, they do a 150w equivalent (model 55611 - MT150D - 6500k) but the best price I have seen them is over £50 The 250w lamp only puts out 18k or so lumens but with a colour rendering index of 90 which is about as close to daylight as any lamp available today, only minor issue is they filter out a lot of UV which may be beneficial for our plants trichome production so am not sure if you would find similar MH or CMH lamps with less UV filtering. Question is whether these lamps will work on a given ballast too. Interesting question really as the more I read about plants, lamps and lumens the more I am learning that its not about lumens at all but more about the wavelengths that plants can actually use as lumens only measure light wavelengths visible to the human eye and is a different thing entirely hence all these purple/red/blue led panels we are seeing today which having learned the basics about photosynthetic active radiation, are making LED look more and more interesting. Hey dude, I like the points you raise about lumens and wavelength and the trade off between them, and the UV (although I haven't looked into this in any depth yet) Have you come across the idea of something around 730nM being used for 10mins after lights off to initiate flower cycle? Agree on lumens being skewed to reflect the human eyes bias to mid wavelength (yellow ish spectrum - hence all motor way lights being yellow) I haven't really come across any convincing evidence for or against lumen output versus wavelength. If you like the science then RIU has lots of people taking bout this (unless you already there) best b. I realise Ive just typed a paragraph which rambles about nothing. e2a the link you posted to the 96 cri lamp ---- @ 96 CRI only 11k lumens for 150W. my experience (reading riu) indicates that people typically prefer a lower CRI (which generally means higher lumen output) over a high CRI index value. Edited June 19, 2015 by Badders 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurora Ruderalis Posted June 27, 2015 Author Share Posted June 27, 2015 Just tell me the best 150 bulb... Period... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indicaderek Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Hey dude, I like the points you raise about lumens and wavelength and the trade off between them, and the UV (although I haven't looked into this in any depth yet) Have you come across the idea of something around 730nM being used for 10mins after lights off to initiate flower cycle? e2a the link you posted to the 96 cri lamp ---- @ 96 CRI only 11k lumens for 150W. my experience (reading riu) indicates that people typically prefer a lower CRI (which generally means higher lumen output) over a high CRI index value. Not heard anything about the 10mins after lights off and UV spectrum lighting Badders, all I read was that UV increases resin production in most strains along with other terpenes and psychoactivity in the end product, results will obviously be strain dependent, also note plants don't actually use the full UV bandwidth utilising just a portion of it, general consensus is that UV triggers resin production as a plant defence mechanism from the UV light itself. Regards CRI I do find most people dont care as its not something non growers worry about, I do however prefer anything over household CFL lamps as I like to actually see stuff in detail but thats just me. @ Crystal Warrior, Thats a question I cannot answer though I will eventually grab one of those Iwasaki 6500k lamps as they really do look good on paper for vegging along with for adding some blue wavelength in flowering by swapping out my current hps lamp, do be careful when you purchase as some of the iwasaki lamps have internal ignitors that wouldn't be compatible with most horticultural HPS ballasts. Very hard to find them in the UK too though they do have a branded horticulture lamp your ballast compatibility is guesswork in some cases, I have seen a couple of the 150w Iwasakis going for about £25 on fleabay though, come across them occasionally as I have been looking for the 250w version though at £30 they aint cheap. Am also convinced to try the LED's as I fancy upgrading to an 80cm square growtent next year which will need more light than I currently have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badders Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Not heard anything about the 10mins after lights off and UV spectrum lighting Badders, all I read was that UV increases resin production in most strains along with other terpenes and psychoactivity in the end product, results will obviously be strain dependent, also note plants don't actually use the full UV bandwidth utilising just a portion of it, general consensus is that UV triggers resin production as a plant defence mechanism from the UV light itself. Regards CRI I do find most people dont care as its not something non growers worry about, I do however prefer anything over household CFL lamps as I like to actually see stuff in detail but thats just me. Will do some researach on UV> wavelengths from 100-400nm. Do you know anyone supplementing with UV? doesn't seem like you would get much from a typical HID/CFL/LED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSZZ Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Hey dude, I like the points you raise about lumens and wavelength and the trade off between them, and the UV (although I haven't looked into this in any depth yet) Have you come across the idea of something around 730nM being used for 10mins after lights off to initiate flower cycle? Agree on lumens being skewed to reflect the human eyes bias to mid wavelength (yellow ish spectrum - hence all motor way lights being yellow) I haven't really come across any convincing evidence for or against lumen output versus wavelength. If you like the science then RIU has lots of people taking bout this (unless you already there) Have a look at this re UVB: In regards to your last comment, have a look into PPF/PPFD (also have a google for Beta Test Team on another site as they bang on about photon particle flux alot). PPF is the amount of photosynthetically active photons hitting your plant per second, its measure in umoles. Lumens on the other hand is literally just the part of the spectrum that the human eye see's, it generally correlates with sodium lamps because of the spectrum, but we all know a MH will yield about 20% less, and thats because (Heat is a given obv) most of that is being used on light that doesnt drive photosynthesis but might synthesis stuff like colour, aromas etc instead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu914 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 @ Just tell me the best 150 bulb...Period... Bit like getting a straight answer from an MP innit mate.......?? I use the minimax and tbh I'm pretty lazy and tight so tend to buy el cheapo (Halide - veg, Sodium Fl) probably about 12 quid the two. Happy with the returns tho. I think that changing them more often, rather than pay for more expensive ones as they must depreciate at similar rates, better to have a new one every grow atb mate stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Just tell me the best 150 bulb... Period... my heart went out to you mate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurora Ruderalis Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 My mini max is ex demo so have no idea how many hours the bulb has done, hence why I want to replace.. @@stu914 that's probably the best way, manage cheap bulbs effectively as they mostly drop off after new quite dramatically.... @@Ishmael to be fair I ended up researching the vialox which looks nice for flower Now looking for ultimate halide 150w bulb.. Thanks for the input folks... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu914 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 @ TLC electric does both atb stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badders Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) my heart went out to you mate I understand what you're getting at. But if you ever want to be satisfied that you're getting the best you can, you're going to have to start looking for yourself. Relying on other peoples opinion is only stones throw from believing the marketing and adverts :S In regards to your last comment, have a look into PPF/PPFD (also have a google for Beta Test Team on another site as they bang on about photon particle flux alot). PPF is the amount of photosynthetically active photons hitting your plant per second, its measure in umoles. Lumens on the other hand is literally just the part of the spectrum that the human eye see's, it generally correlates with sodium lamps because of the spectrum, but we all know a MH will yield about 20% less, and thats because (Heat is a given obv) most of that is being used on light that doesnt drive photosynthesis but might synthesis stuff like colour, aromas etc instead. thanks golden, Yea I always figured lumens was bias to reflect the human eyes sensitivity to ~ 550nm. (yellow-ish - hence motorway lamps being yellow) the MH yield thing is interesting, many people I've read have mentioned MH gives them 'better quality' bud (??) but as you point out, less of it in comparison to an equivalent HPS. My (limited) understanding of this principle is that a luninaire which gives off a blue light (MH - shorter wavelength) will give of less photons, but each photon will have a higher energy. Conversely HPS will give off more photons, but each photon will have less energy (due to its longer wavelength) Plants are more concerned with the quantity of photons rather than their individual energy level. Would you agree with that statement? How that manifests itself with regard to the way in which the plant develops..... (beyond me) I've looked at a few graphs showing chlorophyll absorbtion spectrums, different parts of the plant utilising the diff. energy photons in diff ways, it normally confuses me to the point of switching off (and sparking up) Edited July 3, 2015 by Badders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSZZ Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Yes I would agree with that statement, but its important to remember that plants don't prefer any spectrum over the other, if memory serves me correct you'll find that green, red, blue and then some all absorb at similar sort of rates. HPS lights were used because in greenhouses they were supplementing the sun, halide lights provide parts of that spectrum and again then some so not all the light was going towards photosynthesis, where as red HPS lamps provide a spectrum that more or less just drives photosynthesis, so obviously the best choice for supplementing the suns full spectrum. I think this has a detrimental effect on plants grown under HPS over all and a fuller spectrum should always be strived for. I think OT1 mentions this somewhere - and others have said if you put an old mother outside for a bit it will rejuvenate it a bit. Shoot me a PM if you want to talk about it more mate so we don't derail the thread much more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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