Decriminalize cultivation for personal use UK

[Gumbo]

First post here and you wade in with this.CLEAR?

Gumbo

[Hyper]

United Kingdom Politicians will never decriminalize weed. The most we could hope for is some form of extract which would be controlled and for people with serious illnesses.

I'm interested whether the outcome could work in theory

what the response of the government would be, due to the sudden influx of self confessed growers. putting a strain on police/courts

culminating in a massive rise in prosecutions/sentences.

This method is crazy, convicting yourself, I suppose not enough people would be willing to do it. except me

I quit smoking weed years ago, apart from a few tokes on a joint once or twice.

There should be an independent unbiased review of cannabis laws.

20w cfl if seized is cheap.

the cons are all unverified/false.

[wildbill]

"Police are bound to investigate and act against individuals who violate the law."

Not in my experience they aren't. Eg Turning to face into the other direction.

Edited May 20, 2015 by wildbill

[Darwin]

"Police are bound to investigate and act against individuals who violate the law."

Not in my experience they aren't. Eg Turning to face into the other direction.

Ditto!

Usually after a polite warning.

Bigger fish to fry

[Twisted Rizla]

The most we could hope for is some form of extract which would be controlled and for people with serious illnesses.

It's called Sativex.

Rather than encouraging our members to be cannabis martyrs why not give it a go yourself and then get back to us with the results.

You say you don't smoke weed any longer. Might I ask what your interests are in encouraging our members to be arrested for something you're probably not willing to do yourself?

[baked bean]

I'm interested whether the outcome could work in theory

what the response of the government would be, due to the sudden influx of self confessed growers. putting a strain on police/courts

culminating in a massive rise in prosecutions/sentences.

More than likely the "victim" surcharge would increase to build more prisons

b.b

[Mr Indica]

U dont smoke but want us all to tell the police we do an that we grow ur bonkers bro

[distracted]

as a none smoker you might prefer the company of Derek and Peter at CLEAR, they don't smoke either, although they want to dip into smokers pockets and grab some tax

What I would say is that there are grow shops everywhere, the net is full of online sellers, there are several large forums dedicated to growing and cannabis seeds are legal! The Police, despite jokes to the contrary, are not stupid, they know what is going on, they react to public complaints and pull grows, react to electricity theft and pull grows, aside from that the status quo is not bothering the State. If they wanted to they could make cannabis seeds illegal overnight, threaten to prosecute grow shops with aiding the production of a controlled substance, same for the forums... the whole lot could vanish within days but they don't and they won't as it serves no one

[distracted]

As we are stuck with Tories for 5 years the best efforts would be to work on prominent Tories to lobby for change, the following is one tory think tanks view:

A futile war

For more than four decades, the world has been hooked on its own ad- diction to this ludicrous war. More than one trillion dollars have been wasted on a punitive response to the human desire to get high, a fact of life since our species dwelt in caves. Meanwhile the planet’s political leaders ignored the mounting and incontrovertible evidence of their terrible failure: the destroyed families, the decimated cities, the devastated countries along with the improving purity, the falling prices, the widening range of products.
Slowly but surely, the world has begun waking up. It took time: two years before the start of this century, the United Nations stupidly declared we would have a drug-free planet by 2008, committing member states to eliminate or significantly reduce use of opiates, cannabis and cocaine in a decade. Instead, global opiate use rose by more than one- third, with big rises also for cocaine and cannabis. Last year, the British Medical Journal found street prices declined over the past two decades while potency increased.¹⁵⁸
As Margaret Thatcher said, you can’t buck the market. Like it or not, many people want to take drugs; it is estimated they are used by 5% of the planet’s adults. So the finest law enforcement agencies and massive funding are no match for smugglers when there are mark-ups of more than 16,000%.¹⁵⁹ Even in the most well-protected prisons drugs are available, while the might of American and British militaries failed to stop poppy production tripling in Afghanistan in a decade.¹⁶⁰ What hope of our island nation guarding 12,000 miles of coastline when one year’s supply of cocaine for the entire market could fit in a single shipping container?¹⁶¹

“This idea is often portrayed by ostrich-like opponents as the promotion of a druggie free-for-all. Yet the reality of reform could not be further from this crude caricature. In fact, it is a highly conservative yet progressive cause”

For libertarians, the state simply has no right to dictate to people what they put in their bodies. Their outrage is all the greater when presidents and prime ministers admit using drugs, yet governments run prisons crammed with people caught doing the same drugs or selling them, who mostly could not afford decent lawyers. Or when alcohol is socially acceptable, but the use of substances deemed less harmful by scientists is illegal. This hypocrisy is one reason for the dangerous breach in trust between politicians and their electorates, just as it widens the gap between police and the public. Use of drugs is, of course, a victimless crime. Little wonder chief constables and spy chiefs press the case for reform of our self-harming drug laws. They are right to do so.

Beyond the libertarian argument for drug legalisation

I have sympathy with these libertarian arguments. But ultimately only one fundamental question should govern drug policy: how can the state ensure that people who use these products do the least harm to themselves and society? If you ignore cultural or historic hang-ups, there can only be one answer – the legalisation and regulation of all drugs.
This idea is often portrayed by ostrich-like opponents as the pro- motion of a druggie free-for-all. Yet the reality of reform could not be further from this crude caricature. In fact, it is a highly conservative yet progressive cause, an issue unusually popular with younger voters and with the ability to reconnect the Tories with long-lost sections of the community.
Indeed, it is hard to think of another policy with the same potential to challenge popular conceptions of conservatism. As I proposed to the prime minister and some of his closest advisers, the issue of drug re- form clearly fits the modernising blueprint for both party and nation. The idea was toyed with in the early days of David Cameron’s leader- ship of the party, then quickly abandoned amid fear of hostile head- lines. Since then, the world and the British media has moved on.

International examples

The United Nations Commission on Narcotic Drugs is the annual get-together for combatants in the war on drugs, a forum to swap stories from the frontline and debate how to defeat drugs. Each year, member states discuss global drug controls and examine the effectiveness of the three key international treaties underpinning their mission.
Two years ago, the Czech Republic questioned the idea of illegality, suggesting the UN adopt a new approach based on prevention and treatment rather than prohibition. This country has conducted a lit- tle noticed but near-perfect experiment – decriminalising drugs for personal use under Vaclav Havel, then banning them, then decriminalising them again. A major study into this test case found none of the key arguments for illegality stood up – but vast sums were frittered away that would have been better spent on treatment.¹⁶²

“Uruguay is becoming the first country to legalise and regulate the production, sale and taxation of marijuana”

At this year’s event in March, the Czechs were joined in pressing for an alternative stance by Colombia, Ecuador, Guatemala, Mexico and Uruguay. These are among the nations most damaged by drugs as feud- ing gangs fight over profits from transporting cocaine and heroin to North America and Europe. This cancerous trade now cuts through west Africa also; it was one reason for the recent collapse of Mali, as it fostered corruption and funded Islamic militants, in a clear case study of how this war on drugs backfires on development.
Uruguay is becoming the first country to legalise and regulate the production, sale and taxation of marijuana. As its courageous president Jose Mujica says, this measure targets the traffickers. ‘It’s not a law sup- porting addiction,’ he told The Telegraph. ‘It’s a way of battling the black market economy.‘ Once this would have provoked a furious response from Nixon’s successors in the White House. But last year the Organisation of American States issued a landmark report exploring the path from prohibition, reflecting concerns of leaders fed up with chaos and carnage in their countries.¹⁶³
The tide has even begun turning in the United States, with two states legalising cannabis and two more set to follow after referendums later this year. California is expected to have a ballot in 2016 and if successful, as it almost certainly would be, could spark the end of prohibition in bordering Mexico. As President Barack Obama says, it is wrong to have a law that is widely broken when only a select few get punished. “Middle-class kids don’t get locked up for smoking pot, and poor kids do,” he told The New Yorker in January 2014, adding that this meant African-American and Latino youngsters were hit with the harshest penalties since they were more likely to be impoverished.

The influential blogger Andrew Sullivan noted last year how the successful referendum campaigns in Colorado and Washington rebranded reform as a conservative measure.¹⁶⁴ These campaigns were powered not by hippies seeking the right to smoke spliffs, but parents concerned about children’s safety. Advocates include unlikely figures such as Pat Robertson, the right-wing Christian evangelical, who said: ‘This war on drugs just hasn’t succeeded.’

These cannabis ballots are just the start. Mujica and other Latin leaders are now floating the idea of wider drug reform, while in the US the polls are shifting fast. A majority support legalisation of marijuana, a threefold increase in just 25 years. More significantly, two-thirds of Americans – including a majority of Republicans – favour greater emphasis on treatment rather than punishment for any drug use, with just a quarter wanting the focus on prosecuting users.

Drug dealers have also embraced the digital age, creating synthetic drugs sold online across borders. If the law steps in, chemists simply tweak composition to evade the ban – and there are thought to be some 250 of these new narcotics on the market. The Association of Chief Police Officers has pointed out the futility of constantly adding new drugs to the list of banned substances, given the speed with which the market provides replacements. New Zealand found a far better solution – clinical trials for toxicity, followed by strictly-regulated sales from licensed vendors.
Although drug use is falling in Britain, this country still has the highest rates of drug use in Europe with one in 12 adults and one in six older teenagers admitted taking an illegal drug last year.165 All these people are putting their lives in the hands of dealers who use murder and may- hem to promote their illegal business. The tragic results are seen too often, such as with the spate of deaths of youngsters who thought they were taking ecstasy but were sold the far stronger para-Methoxyam- phetamine (PMA).

The conservative case

Legalisation would replace this ultra-free market that exists to the ben- efit of the world’s most vicious criminal groups with a system in which supply is controlled, products regulated and profits taxed. This is far safer for children, since parents will have more control than at present; it is safer for users, since the drugs can be tested for strength and purity; and it is safer for society, since it cuts off funding for the gangs that scar our cities and the cartels that carve up the world.
Current policies are staggeringly wasteful of taxpayers’ cash, some- thing that should always concern conservatives. One report found more than £65bn spent globally each year on enforcement – yet the booming illicit trade is the same size as the Danish economy, the 32nd biggest in the world. In Britain, annual public expenditure on treatment, policing and criminal justice in relation to drugs is £4.5 billion, but the cost of cocaine has plummeted in recent years.¹⁶⁶
Drug reform should appeal to a Conservative Party seeking ways to connect with young and ethnic minority voters, who bear the brunt of street enforcement strategies by police. These two groups are crucial to the party’s long-term survival. Instead of resorting to misanthropic messaging and failed core vote strategies aimed at frightened older generations, here is an issue offering something bold, conservative and modern that the party could take a lead on nationally and globally.

“In Britain, annual public expenditure on treatment, policing and criminal justice in relation to drugs is £4.5 billion”

It makes sense on economic, political, social and moral grounds. It is also popular, for just as in the US, pressure for reform is growing in Britain. A poll by campaign group Transform found a majority favour permitting cannabis use, while four in 10 Britons favour total decriminalisation and more than two-thirds favour a comprehensive review of all drug policies.¹⁶⁷ Support cuts across political divisions and embraces readers of all papers; some of the most fervent supporters are female readers of mid-market tab- loids who see the damage done to families and communities.
Given the voices coming out in favour of reform, it is hardly even controversial these days. Ken Clarke MP, a relic from the jazz age, says Britain is losing the war on drugs.¹⁶⁸ Alan Duncan argued the number of users would not increase following legalisation from his 1995 book Saturn’s Children in a chapter on drugs of which was later deleted,¹⁶⁹ while crime would fall quickly as we saw following decriminalisation in Portugal.¹⁷⁰ It is worth listening also to Labour’s Bob Ainsworth, whose experiences as a Home Office minister turned him into an unlikely drugs campaigner; as he told me, the public are in a far more progressive place than politicians on this issue.
Prohibition is on its way out; one day people will look back on it with as much bemusement as to the days when alcoholic drink was banned in America. The Conservative Party should lead reform rather than continue to adopt a Canute-style stance against the tide of history. Al- ready the Liberal Democrats are looking to set the pace, while Labour’s Shadow Cabinet has discussed its position and the Ukip leader Nigel Farage backs reform. The Tories, whose leader showed courage and realism before taking office with calls for ‘fresh thinking’ on this subject, should seize the opportunity to outflank them by proposing total over- haul of drug laws instead of continuing to fight Nixon’s futile war.
After all, what could be more conservative than a policy that is tough on crime, cuts public spending, protects children, safeguards families and aids global security?

Ian Birrell is contributing editor at The Daily Mail and Mail on Sunday. One of the country’s highest-profile columnists and foreign correspondents, he is also a former speechwriter to David Cameron and co-founder of the music project Africa Express.


158 BMJ Open, “International “war” on illegal drugs is failing to curb supply”, http://blogs.bmj.com/ bmjopen/2013/09/30/international-war-on-illegal-drugs-is-failing-to-curb-supply/ (2013).
159 Max Daly, “11 Facts That Reveal The Insanity Of The Global War On Drugs”, BuzzFeed, 26 November 2013.
160 “Afghanistan opium harvest at record high – UNODC”, BBC News, 13 November 2013.
161 From author interview with Steve Rolles, senior policy analyst with Transform Drug Policy Foundation.
162 The Global Initiative for Drug Policy Reform, “Legislative changes in the Czech Republic have made it the European country with the most liberal drug policy”, http://reformdrugpolicy.com/ beckley-main-content/new-approaches/future-directions-for-drug-policy-reform/czech-republic/ (2014).
163 Organization of American States, “OAS Secretary General presents report on the drug problem in the Americas”, http://www.oas.org/en/media_center/press_release.asp?sCodigo=E-194/13 (2013).
164 Andrew Sullivan, “The right brings a coup de grass”, The Sunday Times, 18 November 2012.
165 Home Office, “Drug Misuse: Findings from the 2012 to 2013 crime survey for England and Wales”, https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/drug-misuse-findings-from-the-2012-to-2013- csew/drug-misuse-findings-from-the-2012-to-2013-crime-survey-for-england-and-wales (2013).
166 “Drug Prices: All cut up”, The Economist, 11 August 2012.
167 Transform Drug Policy Foundation, “New Ipsos MORI poll shows 53% of GB public want cannabis legalised or decriminalized”, http://transform-drugs.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/new-ipsos- mori-poll-shows-53-of-gb.html (2013).
168 Alan Travis, “Britain is losing war on drugs, says Ken Clarke”, The Guardian, 3 July 2012.
169 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.politics.drugs/zJW3GJIviNc
170 Maia Szalavitz, “Drugs in Portugal: Did decriminalization work?”, Time, 26 April 2009.

[Hyper]

You have some valid points, My intention was not promoting anybody to break the law, I was thinking that opposition by a majority could enforce change.

[stu914]

@@Twisted Rizla

I g

What do you mean by that dude? I've seen you use it in another thread and I wondered then what it was about.

Google lists it as "a village in the South Kesteven district of Lincolnshire".#

I'm missing something aren't I?

I got a primary school.....

[Ishmael]

that went down well

[wildbill]

I dont think the "Cannabis psychosis." reference helped any

[Hir]

You have some valid points, My intention was not promoting anybody to break the law, I was thinking that opposition by a majority could enforce change.

You first!

[Fredi]

I wanted to know whether applied pressure for law reform, through blatant defiance of current legislation would work.

Inciting pro cannabis activists across media/social networks.

encouraging thousands of people country wide to germinate a marijuana seed using a cheap 20w cfl. And doing the most unorthodox action, of informing there local authority to there illegal activity.

Police are bound to investigate and act against individuals who violate the law.

Supporters who are persistent, even against multiple cautions/prison sentences. non violence and compliance with authority

stating only that they are protesting for law reform to decriminalize cannabis.

Allowing an adult to cultivate up to 6 plants in a private residence for personal medical/recreational use.

This reminds me of a joke about 2 Irishmen...........

What would the consequences regarding the aforementioned action be?

United Kingdom legislation, Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. Cannabis and cannabis resin are currently a class B substance,

it was reclassified in 2009 from class C reverting to class B.

Is it Scaremongering tactics?, trying to prove links to cannabis supposed mental health risks psychosis/schizophrenia.

To sway public opinion into thinking weed is a highly dangerous drug.

people predisposed to psychosis can be exacerbated by use of cannabis although alcohol could have the same affect.

Mental disorder statistics have not changed whilst, cannabis use has greatly increased.

What percentage of the uk population in a poll, would support decriminalization do you think?

do you think there would be any consequences if the law was changed?

PROS

Less burden on police services, shutting down hundreds of cannabis farms.

curb on dealing which could bring young people into contact with hard drugs.

CONS

Increase in new smokers.

There may be an increase in drug driving.

Cannabis psychosis.

underage young people smoking cannabis.

Reminds me of a joke I heard about 2 Irishmen............. Edited May 20, 2015 by Fredi