The War on Drugs is NOT The War on Cannabis

[the_pimp]

Gotta agree with Fraust to some extent, while its a nice line to say that even H is OK when used correctly, it does very quickly become physically and mentally addictive and Im not sure that everyone who would take a legalised version would have the self control not to get hooked - I know it took me a good 18 months to stop wanting it.

Decent quality coke is on a similar level, it sounds counter intuitive but I dont think it a bad thing that you can only get shit stuff these days, if I know people who are hooked on 10% purity I hae to think what would happen if they got their hands on 85% pure charlie ......

Addictive drugs are a different kettle of fish to weed, K, MDMA etc. IMO - while Id recommend trying a bit of weed to anyone over the age of 18, Id strongly advise them to steer clear of H no matter how amazing it makes you feel.

[Joolz]

Addictive drugs are a different kettle of fish to weed, K, MDMA etc. IMO

nicotine, alcohol, caffeine ? or is just the socially unacceptable addictive drugs we need to be avoiding

[the_pimp]

nicotine, alcohol, caffeine ? or is just the socially unacceptable addictive drugs we need to be avoiding

Not sure if youve noticed but these are already legalised, I dont remember reading about anyone losing their house over a coffee or cigarette addiction either. Booze is evil mmmkay, but realistically its also a big part of our culture, its not ever going to be outlawed.

The argument that weed should be legalised because alcohol is is totally valid but its a bit of a lazy one IMO.

Edited May 6, 2014 by the_pimp

[sam-i-am]

Not sure if youve noticed but these are already legalised, I dont remember reading about anyone losing their house over a coffee or cigarette addiction either. Booze is evil mmmkay, but realistically its also a big part of our culture, its not ever going to be outlawed.

Would people lose their houses over heroin if they had a cheap clean legal supply? My experiences with friends who've been lucky enough to be prescribed heroin in the past suggests to me that they wouldn't. They all, without exception became far more stable and able to lead relatively normal lives.

[Arnold Layne]

@@sam-i-am

Absolutely!

Legalisation and Normalisation lead to stabilisation.

Prohibition leads to criminality, disease, instability and death.

Boy, is our society screwed or what?

[Ishmael]

Would people lose their houses over heroin if they had a cheap clean legal supply? My experiences with friends who've been lucky enough to be prescribed heroin in the past suggests to me that they wouldn't. They all, without exception became far more stable and able to lead relatively normal lives.

but heroin = bad drug whilst methadone = good medicine, so we switch them from a less addictive more pleasurable and better pain killing drug, to a more addictive drug that is less pleasurable and not so good at pain relief. Because heroin is baaaaaad children.

[Bones de WeedZard]

let me play devil's advocate fer a moment here (fer my own understanding): I thought Legalization was part of the problem an' not the solution Arnie?!

@@sam-i-am

Absolutely!

Legalisation and Normalisation lead to stabilisation.

Prohibition leads to criminality, disease, instability and death.

Boy, is our society screwed or what?

now, I too concur (always had) that Legalize everything is the only real chance at harm reduction we have, re. hard drugs @@sam-i-am

[Arnold Layne]

Hmmm, a half hour or so. Wondered how long it would be before someone spotted that one!

I don't agree with legalisation, but the logic (it leads to stabilisation) is the same, from both points of view. Hence my inclusion of the awful "L" word.

Good quick shout, though. 10/10, but I've run out of cigars!

[the_pimp]

Would people lose their houses over heroin if they had a cheap clean legal supply? My experiences with friends who've been lucky enough to be prescribed heroin in the past suggests to me that they wouldn't. They all, without exception became far more stable and able to lead relatively normal lives.

My experience is different then, I got "hooked" very easily and it took me well over a year to get past it, the mates I know who have come out the other side are the same, wishing they had never tried it. Even if clean smack was available at a tenner a hit its far, far, far more addictive and hence controlling than the other drugs Ive mentioned. The fact that methadone exists in the first place kinda supports that.

You use the word "relatively", I dont know anyone whose weed (or cigarette, or caffeine) habit means they can only lead a "relatively" normal existence, I maintain that for some people it would seriously impact their lives regardless of cost, purity or availability as to some extent they become slaves to it, I dont see that happening with weed even though its artificially expensive through prohibition.

Edited May 6, 2014 by the_pimp

[Arnold Layne]

I admit freely, I am a Morphine & Oxycodone addict. I've been using them daily via a prescription from my GP for two decades now. My doses are now quite high. If I miss a dose, within five hours I start to rattle .... hard. sweats, shivers, shakes, nausea, vomiting, trots .... the full works. If I take my pills, the rattles start to stop within twenty minutes. One hour on, and I'm a normal human being again (well, as Normal as I ever am)

Apart from a tendency to nod off, I can't say as it interferes with my life over much. In fact, it improves it by controlling the pain and so giving me a better quality of life.

To me legalised distribution via pharmacies is the best approach. If someone wants to use Opioid drugs, they will. Regardless of the law. But prohibition means dirty drugs, means health issues. It also means criminal gangs control supply which is dirty, and costly, which in turn fuels crime rates.

I can't see anything good to any kind of prohibition. Free all drugs (as in, Decriminalise), and start a decent public information programme, plus proper rehab programmes available to anyone who wants to come clean.

I do not believe this would fuel any rise in experimentation. All the evidence seems to suggest the very opposite, with folks returning to work and leading seemingly normal lives once their supply is guaranteed and pure, and cheap and the fear of prosecution lifted.

It has been observed by some experts that Heroin addicts tend to come clean in heir thirties and forties, often without any help from anyone ~ simply because they want to be clean. Others in this age range often start calling for and taking any help they can, to be clean.

I honestly think that the Opioids and their usage have been demonised, and that very successfully.

Just my 2p. Now, where's my pill box?

Edited May 6, 2014 by Arnold Layne

[Joolz]

Booze is evil mmmkay, but realistically its also a big part of our culture, its not ever going to be outlawed.

I'm not advocating that booze be made illegal

he argument that weed should be legalised because alcohol is is totally valid but its a bit of a lazy one IMO.

i don't see it as lazy, tbh that doesn't make much sense, please explain why its lazy ?

[sam-i-am]

My experience is different then, I got "hooked" very easily and it took me well over a year to get past it, the mates I know who have come out the other side are the same, wishing they had never tried it. Even if clean smack was available at a tenner a hit its far, far, far more addictive and hence controlling than the other drugs Ive mentioned. The fact that methadone exists in the first place kinda supports that.

You use the word "relatively", I dont know anyone whose weed (or cigarette, or caffeine) habit means they can only lead a "relatively" normal existence, I maintain that for some people it would seriously impact their lives regardless of cost, purity or availability as to some extent they become slaves to it, I dont see that happening with weed even though its artificially expensive through prohibition.

A tenner a hit is still expensive. Prescribing heroin is much cheaper. I used the word relatively because they had all already been damaged by the illegal market and heroin prescriptions enabled them to recover some of that lost ground.

People become slaves to tobacco, it's not a problem because of it's availability and price. Biologically speaking heroin is less harmful than tobacco or alcohol, it's main risk is it's injectability and the risk of overdose and that in itself is a byproduct of prohibition, injectable heroin is easier to smuggle than bulky opium.

[the_pimp]

I'm not advocating that booze be made illegal

i don't see it as lazy, tbh that doesn't make much sense, please explain why its lazy ?

I didnt say you were advocating booze be made illegal, but as part of the fabric of our society (like it or not) its not really comparable to drugs that are currently prohibited.

As for the lazy argument, forgive me if this doesnt make sense but I dont think that the often used approach of highlighting the evils of alcohol and then extolling how cannabis is much better on each count is necessarily the best way to argue for the legalisation/normalisation of it, although it is probably the easiest. Compared to Hitler even Maggie Thatcher looks good, right?

As for the opiates Im not moving on it - Ive taken everything I could get my hands on but only one experience had me literally hanging out for more within a few minutes of coming down, I dont think thats a good thing. Id be the first to admit that Arnies case is different, medical is a totally different situation but for pure recreation I havent ever met anyone who didnt wish they had never tried H in the first place.

Im with Fraust, I think there would be a lot more success for campaigning for legalisation of weed without grouping it in with everything else, bot just because public opinion is infinitely more negative towards opiates but also because I personally believe its a lot less likely to be habit forming than H is.

[sam-i-am]

but for pure recreation I havent ever met anyone who didnt wish they had never tried H in the first place.

Hello,

Does meeting on an internet forum count?

[Cambium]