Is it possible to live a full life without trying psychoactives ?

[Ishmael]

young druggies today eh booj, don't know they're born

[utopiate]

Love your honesty. Booj, though bathing is not illegal yet. If I could go back, I would have a go at being straight, but probably fuck that up. Embrace the hedonistic emperative, to Booj, not everyone, We are all different, and psychotropics are not for everyone.

I took acid for the first time at fourteen, as a I trawled the local libaries for insight. (pre internet), and found Jeff Nuttells, Bomb Culture, and Wolfe~s Electric Kool aid acid test, Acid was my first drug that wasn~t booze or fags.

I don~t regret, but I often wonder, what if?

We make choices.

Oh, I am 50, I suppose I should say, and a mardy grue.

[ZEF]

Being one of the younger people on this site I thought I could contribute an insight to my generation.

Yes, it's as bad as you think. A lot of people do have the recreational drug attitude, not all of them but a vast majority.

I remember one night at a bar I got into a discussion with some guys (about 20/22) about DMT, I tried to explain to them how I haven't took it yet as I want to carry on researching it and just bide my time with things. The lads then turned around and boasted about how they extracted some and took it every night for a week and how "super fucked up" they got. Could be complete BS but yeah, who is looking forward to a future of human's with mush for brains?

[Boojum]

Love your honesty. Booj, though bathing is not illegal yet. If I could go back, I would have a go at being straight, but probably fuck that up. Embrace the hedonistic emperative, to Booj, not everyone, We are all different, and psychotropics are not for everyone.

I took acid for the first time at fourteen, as a I trawled the local libaries for insight. (pre internet), and found Jeff Nuttells, Bomb Culture, and Wolfe~s Electric Kool aid acid test, Acid was my first drug that wasn~t booze or fags.

I don~t regret, but I often wonder, what if?

We make choices.

Oh, I am 50, I suppose I should say, and a mardy grue.

Ay up Utopiate man , long time no see. Hope you're well

I do wonder what my life would have been like if I'd never done that first half an acid at around the same age you did your first. I also spent a lot of time finding stuff to read about hallucinogens (kids nowadays really don't know they are born, they've got the whole internet). But I'm glad I did it, and what it led to. The first proper ego-death trip, when I ceased to be a person and was just part of the universe, I wouldn't swap that for the world. I wouldn't swap some of my bad trips either, cos although they were nightmarish I even think I learned stuff from them.

[clawz]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LM0A9urb8xM

Stand up comedy on acid

[MaxTrichomes]

Good words Boojum, I never really think what if I did not ? Maybe because I am a fairly happy normal person and life is ok right now. Sure have the same problems any human has to deal with I suppose but right now all ok. I don't think acid is even available it's been 20 years now ! Shrooms, well I can take them or leave them at this time cause they are a real double edged sword for me. How much massively intensified feelings of awe, love, connection, compassion and empathy do you need ? Buddha said once you got over the river throw away the raft (or something alone thos lines) For me shrooms were all about feelings and emotions rather than visuals etc. You can OD on love and conection, . + the inevitable bad trip that comes with the territory without warning. I doubt anything would be greatly different anyway, maybe, probably in my own head more than outwardly.

These legal highs are a concern, that set up all seems really weird to me, just wrong and weird.

What is interesting is people who have done the basic shrooms and puff seem like some of the most health conscious and aware people I know ! So much for leading wreckless lives.

One thing to add is that I am pretty sure that the orgins of the herb we use (India) where herb grew from the very beginning almost certainly had direct bearing on the moral and phiosophical views entwined within Hinduism, it just must have !

Edited March 20, 2014 by MaxTrichomes

[MaxTrichomes]

I bet @@namkha would have something interesting to add regarding India and herb.

[Darwin]

Africa is the place Max, we came out of the cradle of humanity with herb at our feet. Its history and ours go back further than language.

Wiv regards to OP, been perma-skewed on one thing or another for the last 20 years (mid thirties now) and so far no major issues! Will report back in another 20 when I'm coming back round for another orbit

[DaveDee]

Every time I did mushrooms, I got the feeling they were trying to tell me something mathematical.

My thoughts kept turning to geometric patterns, the markings on animals/reptiles/fish/honeycomb, crystalline etc etc.

I could never actually get what they were trying to tell me, maybe I didnt take enough shrooms?

It was always the same though, maths maths and maths.

In the end I did some extensive searching online and found that maths is the basis building blocks of the universe.

I also came across artists llike Alex Grey etc. I would love to ask alex and similar artists why they depict rows and colums of things repeatedly, because their work also 'spoke' to me visually, trying to telll me something about rows and columns and repetittions.

I'm still none the wiser but I am on medication now which means I cant take shrooms.

I only got the medication because at the time I was suffering valium withdrawls and addiction with psychiatric withdrawal induced problems, but that is no longer a problem.

I do intend to wean off these meds and use psychs again.

I mainly never used psychedelics recreationally, I always used them for the increased self awareness realisations.

These were always initially a bit uncomforable, but worth sticking with and moving through because the anxiety and unease always gave way to insights, provided i stayed with it and didnt try to fight it off.

They do enrich lives but I wouldnt like to say that anyone who hasnt done them is not living a full life, because we get odd experiences when not on them, just not as many. Also, there are other ways to attain altered states with out psychs such as fasting etc.

[DaveDee]

As for mental illness, I think psychs can improve it.

I think this because they are an oppoertunity for self awareness.

Take weed for instance, more the sativas.

People often say it makes them para or have panic attacks but, if the user can stop fighting it, as that is where the panic comes from, and get into their whole body with their mental sense of touch, they will find that the negative initial feelings give way to insights that they can take away from the experience and use in their future life.

The shakes might well come, but that's cool, it's just the bodys way of releasing the tension that has built up, so it's important to allow yourself to shake, until the tension has gone and the chill begins.

One time on HBW seeds, I had a panic attack. I didn't know if I was feeling mentally or physically fucked up.

Even my normally level headed mate was worried.

I then got it into my head that I needed to make myself sick, so, after sticking my fingers down my throat and puking for england, this really took away the scary madness but I was still getting lesser waves of panic and had to ask my mate to hurry up and roll that spliff as i couldnt roll at that point.

I laid on the bed with my mate and got the shakes really badlly.

My mate got worried again, saying I was vibrating.

In the midst of the shakes, I said to him "Don't worry, I'm ok now, I'm just releasing energy" as that's how it felt.

The tension gradually left my body and the shakes faded, and left me with a really chilled feeling, watching the walls breathing and just being.

Slightly off the subject, but when I was puking, it did really feel like I was purging all the negative stuff out of me, it was the most metaphorical vomitting session I have ever had.

Trippy drugs always tell me the same message, to get in my body if I panic.

I can do this under the influence, but, when sober, I don't even know I am panicking. That grey cloud that descends when trips wear off, stops me realising I am panicking and this causes panic based behaviour, bad life choices and so on. The post trip descent of the grey cloud is permanent with me, unless tripping. The cloud has got clearer through tripping though.

I think you can have a trip on weed. Sometimes its reminded me of acid experiences i have had.

I also find that I would not take a dose higher than I am comfy with because that may bring on a stronger panic that I am not yet strong enough to control. I can learn to get stronger, in gradual steps if I feel comfy enough to do so.

I know people say that low doses on psychedelics can be a mind-f*ck, involving feeling bad about your self or really anxious, but I think that these low doses are opportunities to gain psychic strengh by learning to face your insecurities and see what insights can be gained to master them.

I know that tripping alone is discouraged, but I like it for introspection, because if I stick with low doses, being alone gives me the space to explore without being aware of other presences and influences.

Also, if I get panicky and need to release the tension, I can do so without worrying others.

I've had mates walk off when in the park in a group with weed, just so that they can be on their own, because I think that it might be easier in one sense, to learn how to calm yourself down so you can enjoy the rest of the trip, be it cannabis, weed, shrooms or whatever.

Edited March 23, 2014 by DaveDee

[DaveDee]

Good words Boojum, I never really think what if I did not ? Maybe because I am a fairly happy normal person and life is ok right now. Sure have the same problems any human has to deal with I suppose but right now all ok. I don't think acid is even available it's been 20 years now ! Shrooms, well I can take them or leave them at this time cause they are a real double edged sword for me. How much massively intensified feelings of awe, love, connection, compassion and empathy do you need ? Buddha said once you got over the river throw away the raft (or something alone thos lines) For me shrooms were all about feelings and emotions rather than visuals etc. You can OD on love and conection, . + the inevitable bad trip that comes with the territory without warning. I doubt anything would be greatly different anyway, maybe, probably in my own head more than outwardly.

These legal highs are a concern, that set up all seems really weird to me, just wrong and weird.

What is interesting is people who have done the basic shrooms and puff seem like some of the most health conscious and aware people I know ! So much for leading wreckless lives.

One thing to add is that I am pretty sure that the orgins of the herb we use (India) where herb grew from the very beginning almost certainly had direct bearing on the moral and phiosophical views entwined within Hinduism, it just must have !

Plenty of acid available in certain places.

[Guerrillero]

I think it's perfectly possible for someone to live a full and content life without trying illicit psychoactives.

For every person that may want to test the limits of their consciousness with potent psychedelics there are 100 who just enjoy the odd glass of their favourite tipple on occasion, or who buzz from the love of Jesus or whatever. That's cool, it's all different strokes.

I feel that use of certain drugs - mushrooms, acid, weed, opiates, MDMA - can be useful for learning certain things about yourself, the nature of things, and can lead to positive changes in outlook in some people. They can, with moderate use, literally expand the mind, open it up.

On the other hand, all of those drugs are not for everyone. Some people should just never smoke weed, or take a hallucinogen, or dabble in drugs which can be highly addictive.

I feel that psychoactive substances simply suit some people and can be beneficial with moderate usage for all sorts of reasons - whereas for others psychoactives just don't agree with them and will generally lead to mainly negative effects. Others just have no interest in them, fair enough.

[MaxTrichomes]

Dave Dee, nice post on the darker side of the actives.. your experiences have struck a chord with me. I shroomed out with small doses each weekend for a while then had a bigger dose. I think with myself there is a "mind/body interrrupt". It starts differently but has a body/mind relationship. Sometimes with realizing there is an extreme physical sensation, rapid hear rate, sweat on my brow... feeling clammy, severe dry mouthand sensation of loss of breath is another classic or cold or overheated. Then the brain kicks in and I have to take stock and say.. "Take control, you are ok". Problem is if you have taken a highish dose of herb orally or shrooms you cannot control the rate the liver releases the actives into the system and can get lost in the confusion and before you know it ... it's whitey/panic time. As you say through the whitey it's a rollercoaster of self reflection (fear of heart attack from raised heart rate), stress and the shakes.. ugh.. horrid.. not knowing if you are hot or cold and often both... and then riding those waves of intense dizzy weird feelings about 15-20mins apart. Then you have a little lull.. and can take stock and try and calm down properly but then it rises again.

I had panic attacks on shrooms with wretching reflx with no vomit.. so weird.

Luckily so far I have had a few little paniccy minutes (15-20 mins before it resides) but with the vape I am greater control than an oral dose. I almost like the exhilaration of a slight panic but not one that endures uncontrollably for 4-5 hours,

For sure an oral dose of herb can get trippy, but often with some short amnesia like effects on top of it.

As you say once the waves of doom calm down that zen like calm is like a rebirth.

People are right you can of course lead a full life. But for myself only I can say I am glad I have some exprience of psychedelic substances. For me herb is a universal pleasure enhancing substance generally speaking.

[MaxTrichomes]

@@Darwin most online info cites origination in Asia:

http://thc.me/history/where-did-marijuana-originate-from

[Guerrillero]

Though taking psychoactives is of course a personal choice, it is a shame that some people miss out on what could be enjoyable experiences without any long term adverse effects.

I love this video of a 50's housewife trying acid!