Are there any Hindus here?

[justnuts]

Yup ... i am hindu!! Not that i follow it much ... fascinating yes ... but following it is another thing!!

[solarchild]

thought this might be of interest, heard a bit this morning on the wireless

In our time: Hindu creation ideas

[podencoid]

thought this might be of interest, heard a bit this morning on the wireless

In our time: Hindu creation ideas

+1 sounded good, just caught a few minutes of it but it's on Radio 4 iplayer.

My attempt at explaining Hinduism was too wordy - it's difficult to strike a balance between 'The guy with elephant head is called Ganesha' and 'does phenomena (Shakti) arise independently or is it simply an aspect of the noumenal potential (Shiva) and therefore both one arising (or, not two)'...

The Bhagavad Gita (Isherwood translation) is a good guide to the principles of Hinduisim.

[namkha]

I think it is really not easy to generalise about "Hinduism" - especially when you come from a society where ideas about what religion is are shaped by Christianity

just started watching this, may be useful to give an idea of just how diverse the culture is in Indian "religions"

[Voodoo Smoke]

@@podencoid hindu is a good religion people forget that there still is only one god every other god is a distortion of the one, everything else is a demi creator just like us, would you agree

[Saddam]

@@podencoid hindu is a good religion people forget that there still is only one god every other god is a distortion of the one, everything else is a demi creator just like us, would you agree

I hope you mean Zeus?

[namkha]

if you look at Hinduism as it actually exists on the ground in South Asia I'm sure you could find examples to contradict every assertion made about it in this thread so far...

the tendency is for outsiders, especially Westerners, who take an interest in Hindu culture to assume that whichever aspect they have got into is representative of the whole...

so someone who has spent some time studying Vedanta will have some ideas; someone else who has followed a bhakti cult will have others; another who knows about Bengali Tantra something completely different; not to mention a follower of an Aghora...

my take on this is that anyone willing to hold forth about what Hinduism is all about is either a devotee of x or y tradition, or someone who doesn't know much about the Hindu world(s)

[podencoid]

@@namkha - I think you are characterising a certain tendency and I can't disagree. But, I would say it's sometimes easier to get an overview of Hinduism if you are outside of Hindu culture than if you are on the ground, mostly because you are taking an interest in its philosophy stripped of superstition and cultural overlay (which makes up a huge part of it).

It’s more complicated than other religions because of its diversity and the fact that you can’t ‘convert’ to Hinduism in the way you can to Judaism for example. It doesn't have a unifying text like the Bible or the Koran.

I think there are some basic patterns in it, adherents who are aiming for Moksha or liberation in this life and those that are aiming for a rebirth in better circumstances in the next life. There are dualists who may be strong Bhaktas and want to remain separate from their chosen deity, and vedantists who aim to realise their non-separate identity with Brahman.

This little snippet from the Wikipedia article on Hinduism is pretty good:

Hindu practices generally involve seeking awareness of God and sometimes also seeking blessings from Devas. Therefore, Hinduism has developed numerous practices meant to help one think of divinity in the midst of everyday life.

I lean towards the Vedanta (Jnana marga) side of things so, like you said, I am probably seeing through that lens.

[Arnold Layne]

I'll do a lot for spiritual enlightenment, but No Way will I eat rotting human flesh, animal faeces and urine, or food (rotting) off rubbish tips.

There are limits!

And any god requiring animal sacrifices, can just go fuck themselves. Jah, YHWH, Shiva and Allah included!

[namkha]

I would say it's sometimes easier to get an overview of Hinduism if you are outside of Hindu culture than if you are on the ground, mostly because you are taking an interest in its philosophy stripped of superstition and cultural overlay (which makes up a huge part of it).

hey - fair enough, but my tuppence would be that any notion of "Hindu philosophy stripped of superstition and cultural overlay" is already raising a lot of questions...

I learned Vipassana meditation a few years ago - which emerged out of Burmese Theravada Buddhism - and this kind of thinking was very widespread --- i.e. this (in my opinion) dubious idea that you can strip Buddhism of loads of superfluous cultural accretions and get down to some essential core, the pure original philosophy... (an ironically un-Buddhist way of thinking if you ask me)

that sort of "find the pure original philosophy/practice" approach was normal for some of the earlier 20th century Western proponents of Indian philosophies - e.g. of Theravada Buddhism...

but on a day to day level dealing with other Vipassana meditators I saw this could lead to a very dismissive and haughty attitude towards ritual practices which are a normal part of the lives of Buddhist communities, for example... very little attempt was made to understand what these rituals were about or the role the played in the Thai/Indian/Tibetan communities they were part of...

any kind of puja or ceremony seemed almost to be viewed as a form of idolatry...

Mahayana and East Asian Buddhism was often dismissed outright as being in some sense "impure" - for example I remember one time bringing up Zen koans (gong ans) and this weird literal mindedness emerged where for there was no question of interpretation coming into it - the stories. some of them admittedly very far out, were seen as divergences from 'the Middle Way'

a key point being that clearly none of these guys had sat down and had a good read of the earliest scriptures - e.g. some of the oldest texts in the Vinaya Pitaka are full of talk of the the Buddha's magic powers - like where he sits down and competes with dreadlocked wanderers over who could emanate the most impressive streams of multi-coloured lights (the Buddha could, of course)

Edited March 31, 2014 by namkha

[Arnold Layne]

@@namkha

I have been wrestling with Vipassana Meditation for a year or more now. Mindfulness is big in the Pain Management world these days. But they tend to push a sort of "Meditation Lite", stripped of all and any "Religious" wrapping.

I'm very bad at it, got to say. My mind is either skitting about like a gad~fly, or dropping into the abyss of Morphine induced sleep. However, slowly but surely I improve. Its a very useful discipline for anyone with Chronic (= 24/7, and not responsive to conventional treatment) Pain. But you have to work at it. For every stab of pain, there is a place of profound comfort. If my leg hurts, I focus on my arm which is perhaps pain free. Surprising how the "Pain Free" state can move into parts of the body troubled by discomfort, when the focus is sharp and full. I'm getting particularly better at "spreading the comfort", sort of pushing the "lake" of comfort residing in one part of my body so that it floods over and into a place of discomfort.

[podencoid]

hey - fair enough, but my tuppence would be that any notion of "Hindu philosophy stripped of superstition and cultural overlay" is already raising a lot of questions...

I learned Vipassana meditation a few years ago - which emerged out of Burmese Theravada Buddhism - and this kind of thinking was very widespread --- i.e. this (in my opinion) dubious idea that you can strip Buddhism of loads of superfluous cultural accretions and get down to some essential core, the pure original philosophy... (an ironically un-Buddhist way of thinking if you ask me)

that sort of "find the pure original philosophy/practice" approach was normal for some of the earlier 20th century Western proponents of Indian philosophies - e.g. of Theravada Buddhism...

but on a day to day level dealing with other Vipassana meditators I saw this could lead to a very dismissive and haughty attitude towards ritual practices which are a normal part of the lives of Buddhist communities, for example... very little attempt was made to understand what these rituals were about or the role the played in the Thai/Indian/Tibetan communities they were part of...

any kind of puja or ceremony seemed almost to be viewed as a form of idolatry...

Mahayana and East Asian Buddhism was often dismissed outright as being in some sense "impure" - for example I remember one time bringing up Zen koans (gong ans) and this weird literal mindedness emerged where for there was no question of interpretation coming into it - the stories. some of them admittedly very far out, were seen as divergences from 'the Middle Way'

a key point being that clearly none of these guys had sat down and had a good read of the earliest scriptures - e.g. some of the oldest texts in the Vinaya Pitaka are full of talk of the the Buddha's magic powers - like where he sits down and competes with dreadlocked wanderers over who could emanate the most impressive streams of multi-coloured lights (the Buddha could, of course)

Good point - maybe I am wrong but I can sense happening more with Western Buddhist practitioners than with western Hindus (if there is a such a thing). Although people practice Yoga for weight loss and aren't interested in the background or purpose of Yoga so maybe it happens with Hindu philosophy as well...

I spent time in Tamil Nadu and I love the Tamil traditions and culture but I don't know how sensible or helpful it would be for me, as a Westerner, to adopt all that. I feel I can all too easily take on new identities but this is all about our essential identity at the end of the day and I feel that's the same for everyone even though we are all unique as well. I can still appreciate Tamil culture and ritual and I hope I'm not snooty about it. I certainly don't dismiss it. As you say, people see things through their own lens of prejudices and conditioning and my leaning towards perennial philosophy made me reject Christianity initially and then search in Eastern religions. From there I feel I have come back to my everyday experience and Advaita Vedanta (amongst other things) seems to be helpful.

Do you know the zen cat story? This is the first version I could find after a quick search:

When the spiritual teacher and his disciples began their evening meditation, a cat who lived in the monastery made such noise that it distracted them. One day the teacher ordered that the cat be tied up during the evening practice.

Years later, when the teacher died, the cat continued to be tied up during the meditation session. And when the cat eventually died, another cat was brought to the monastery and tied up. Centuries later, learned descendants of the spiritual teacher wrote scholarly treatises about the religious significance of tying up a cat for meditation practice.