The Atheism Thread

[scraglor]

science can't for instance explain why the universe exists, instead of just not existing. without conscious thought which doesn't exist in the physical universe, as it's neither energy nor matter, but the experience of the two, would the universe exist at all. science can't explain why we can experience the universe, just observe how. you could answer every question of HOW the universe works and still never answer WHY it exists at all. to say there's a reason why there is existence attaches some kind of conscious thought to why there is existence. if there's no conscious thought behind why the universe exists and is how it is, there is no why, it just is because it is. and if someone were to prove there is a why, and there's a reason behind the universe, you're obviously stuck in the paradox of what created the first reason

e2@: but a much shorter reply would have been that the actual question of why is infinite, you can answer any question and then still ask why. i know this, i have an eight year old son!

Edited September 15, 2009 by scraglor

[ratdog]

we seek to understand the how in order propose a why

[scraglor]

" Questions regarding why the universe behaves in such a way have been described by physicists and cosmologists as being extra-scientific,"

extra scientific,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmogony

Edited September 15, 2009 by scraglor

[weed_G]

no, science can only prove how, never why. you can say, like poles repel, opposite attracts, you can't say WHY though, you can determine what the laws are and how they act, you can't determine WHY the laws are as they are.

science can't for instance explain why the universe exists, instead of just not existing. without conscious thought which doesn't exist in the physical universe, as it's neither energy nor matter, but the experience of the two, would the universe exist at all. science can't explain why we can experience the universe, just observe how. you could answer every question of HOW the universe works and still never answer WHY it exists at all. to say there's a reason why there is existence attaches some kind of conscious thought to why there is existence. if there's no conscious thought behind why the universe exists and is how it is, there is no why, it just is because it is. and if someone were to prove there is a why, and there's a reason behind the universe, you're obviously stuck in the paradox of what created the first reason

top drawer

e2@: but a much shorter reply would have been that the actual question of why is infinite, you can answer any question and then still ask why. i know this, i have an eight year old son!

if the universe is infinite, then it stands to reason the why's must also be infinite ...as must the answers

[arcane]

Where the fuck is this debate going?

In to and beyond the great depths situated at the rear.

I think humanity lacks the experience and knowledge to posit any valid opinion on whether 'god' exists or does not considering we lack even the ability to agree on what 'god' is.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,

Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

I'd also like to add that Laramie has kept me amused throughout.

[Alf4lf4]

Where the fuck is this debate going?

In to and beyond the great depths situated at the rear.

I think humanity lacks the experience and knowledge to posit any valid opinion on whether 'god' exists or does not considering we lack even the ability to agree on what 'god' is.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,

Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

I'd also like to add that Laramie has kept me amused throughout.

Oh dear' oh dear oh f*****g dear. And just what makes you able to judge the level and quality of human knowledge? As far as I'm aware there isn't even a reliable measure of human intelligence, let alone a way to determine the extent of human knowledge. The libraries of the world are stuffed full of the written expression of human knowledge, not to mention the limitless pool of information available on the internet. Quite apart from the fact that 'god' was invented in the minds of men. Surely we have the ability to comprehend what we have created.

[callywally]

definitions of agnostic deist and theist please

many thanks

[arcane]

Where the fuck is this debate going?

In to and beyond the great depths situated at the rear.

I think humanity lacks the experience and knowledge to posit any valid opinion on whether 'god' exists or does not considering we lack even the ability to agree on what 'god' is.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,

Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

I'd also like to add that Laramie has kept me amused throughout.

Oh dear' oh dear oh f*****g dear. And just what makes you able to judge the level and quality of human knowledge? As far as I'm aware there isn't even a reliable measure of human intelligence, let alone a way to determine the extent of human knowledge. The libraries of the world are stuffed full of the written expression of human knowledge, not to mention the limitless pool of information available on the internet. Quite apart from the fact that 'god' was invented in the minds of men. Surely we have the ability to comprehend what we have created.

Nothing qualifies as being more able than anyone else; I made a judgement and expressed it as a written opinion.

Zealotry is such an ugly thing.

[Alf4lf4]

So is ignorance.

[Guest]

if the universe is infinite

one could say the universe is not infinite, the fact that everything in space is moving away from a specific point (big bang)would mean it is expanding, and will eventually expand to the point where it can no longer, and the universe will shrink back to what it was before the big bang.

i personally believe the universe was created by matter and anti-matter colliding, which makes it entirely possible that our universe is just a tiny bubble in a huge sea of universes ( therefore making a multiverse) in an everlasting ocean of matter and anti-matter. it could also be possible that this is not the first time this universe has existed; it may have been many times before, expanding from and shrinking back to the same singular point.

[Alf4lf4]

Further reply to arcane. You have the thick skinned temerity to impugn the intelligence of the entire human race and when I ask what gives you the right to do so you make a mealy mouthed excuse about 'only expressing your opinion' and imply that I'm a zealot. The big difference between me and a religious zealot is that I back my statements up with hard facts. What is the difference between you and an ignoramus?

[Alf4lf4]

if the universe is infinite

one could say the universe is not infinite, the fact that everything in space is moving away from a specific point (big bang)would mean it is expanding, and will eventually expand to the point where it can no longer, and the universe will shrink back to what it was before the big bang.

i personally believe the universe was created by matter and anti-matter colliding, which makes it entirely possible that our universe is just a tiny bubble in a huge sea of universes ( therefore making a multiverse) in an everlasting ocean of matter and anti-matter. it could also be possible that this is not the first time this universe has existed; it may have been many times before, expanding from and shrinking back to the same singular point.

I've heard several different definitions of infinite. It seems as though infinite is difficult to define. There may be more than one 'infinite'. There may even be an infinite number of infinites. I'd be inclined to agree with you that there may well be more than one universe.

[Guest]

if the universe is infinite

one could say the universe is not infinite, the fact that everything in space is moving away from a specific point (big bang)would mean it is expanding, and will eventually expand to the point where it can no longer, and the universe will shrink back to what it was before the big bang.

i personally believe the universe was created by matter and anti-matter colliding, which makes it entirely possible that our universe is just a tiny bubble in a huge sea of universes ( therefore making a multiverse) in an everlasting ocean of matter and anti-matter. it could also be possible that this is not the first time this universe has existed; it may have been many times before, expanding from and shrinking back to the same singular point.

I've heard several different definitions of infinite. It seems as though infinite is difficult to define. There may be more than one 'infinite'. There may even be an infinite number of infinites. I'd be inclined to agree with you that there may well be more than one universe.

indeed.Dr. Michio Kaku has many interesting things to say about these theories.

[Guest grandad]

so much inteligence discussing something that dos'nt exist, makes me glad i was never educated. people appear to believe everythung they read.

[scraglor]

if the universe is infinite

one could say the universe is not infinite, the fact that everything in space is moving away from a specific point (big bang)would mean it is expanding, and will eventually expand to the point where it can no longer, and the universe will shrink back to what it was before the big bang.

i personally believe the universe was created by matter and anti-matter colliding, which makes it entirely possible that our universe is just a tiny bubble in a huge sea of universes ( therefore making a multiverse) in an everlasting ocean of matter and anti-matter. it could also be possible that this is not the first time this universe has existed; it may have been many times before, expanding from and shrinking back to the same singular point.

but what is outside the universe, maybe it would read better for you if it said existence is infinite. and why did the matter/antimatter exist in the first place? i like the theory mentioned in the ink i posted earlier (although a book of fiction) that a black hole collapsing is a universe expanding in another dimension, with all the energy transfered to the new universe through the new born universe, our universe shrinking a little, when the last black hole collapses and bears it's final offspring our universe ceases to exist in the multiverse

and alf4 humans can't comprehend infinity, maybe get a grasp on the idea, but not fully comprehend it, as for understand the universe or comprehend what god is supposed to be. well i don't see any unite definitions anywhere in the 1000000's of books, most disagree with eachother. i'd say the depth of human knowledge on the universe is absolutely miniscule. shit, we don't even know what's at the bottom of our own worlds oceans!