Actively Aerated Compost Tea

[I Zimbra]

If your found wanting again make a compost/worm cast tea

[beanz]

If your found wanting again make a compost/worm cast tea

would that really replace webby's innoculant?

just reading the thread and getting a bit confused?

[I Zimbra]

If your found wanting again make a compost/worm cast tea

would that really replace webby's innoculant?

just reading the thread and getting a bit confused?

i dont know whats in the essence, but a tea made using worm castings would make an excellent foliar spray/soil drench to be used to for overall plant health, its contains a diverse range of beneficial microbes, which in turn i believe will have the ability to cycle a diverse array of nutrients, giving a superior end product.

[oldtimer1]

allmix already contains "rockmeal" which is basically rockdust, it also contains fungi and bacterial innoculants. bio-bizz pre-mix is basically all of the above. still worth adding a bit of mollasses and maxicrop to your feeds though, as these feed the bugs and fungi

If allmix contains rock dust, its not enough, the addition of more improves it out of sight, allmix may contain some micro heard, whatever it contains is of little use to plants, ie I don't think they are beneficial. The addition of mycorrhizal spoors to allmix when potting on also makes it a much better compost.

If your found wanting again make a compost/worm cast tea

would that really replace webby's innoculant?

just reading the thread and getting a bit confused?

i dont know whats in the essence, but a tea made using worm castings would make an excellent foliar spray/soil drench to be used to for overall plant health, its contains a diverse range of beneficial microbes, which in turn i believe will have the ability to cycle a diverse array of nutrients, giving a superior end product.

I have been using compost and manure teas for 50 years or so, had worm farms for over 40 years while teas made from these things may foliar and root feed I have found they do little to help with pathogenic fungi infections, they neither prevent or cure them, I can say with certainty that essence helps with white rot on onions and other alliums, it also gives some protection against early and late blight, for sure it halts most leaf spot and other fungal infections that cannabis is suffering more and more today if used early enough.

[I Zimbra]

intersting, so what would you find in the essence that you wouldn't find in a good quality AACT?

[Felix Dzerzhinsky]

intersting, so what would you find in the essence that you wouldn't find in a good quality AACT?

No Essence is a consistent mix of over 20 species of beneficial organisms.

[oldtimer1]

intersting, so what would you find in the essence that you wouldn't find in a good quality AACT?

The essence inoculant contains several species of trichoderma and other protective bacteria, these have been selected for populating the ariel parts of the plant, ie the leaves branches and stem, it was first made to form a living barrier to protect against aerial plant infections. This selected blend of pure spore cultures are derived from naturally occurring beneficial species. While it is meant to be used to protect healthy plants against infection for organic farmers, we found that it also cures or halts leaf fungus infections when used on infected cannabis plants. To me this is much better than using systemic fungicides.

My grandfather made teas by steeping manure and compost in rain water and stirring vigorously several times a day, I used to have the job of drenching the plants as soon as I could carry a watering can, that was some sixty years ago, I have been using teas ever since, mind I don't follow the milk cart with a bucket and spade to collect the horses dropping every day anymore. To this day I don't grow as good fruit and veg as my grandfather did, but they are pretty good, I just don't put the time and effort into it that he did, thats my loss.

The thing about bubbled compost teas is they are better than grandfathers, in that they propagate and multiply all the aerobic bacteria and some fungi, this is good as these are mainly beneficial types but we have to remember there are some pathogens as well, [it depends on what is in the compost] it also passes on any anaerobic micro spoors in the compost, ie they will also get passed on in the spray or drench. The majority of micros are goodies though and mainly composed of species involved in the breakdown of carbon products + N and P miners.

These types do most good when used as a drench as it will contain the free NPK + all the secondaries released so far by the heard/breakdown process in a form ready to be used immediately by the plants, you can practically see the plants say thank you, there are unlikely to be many protective species, but the drench will supply the soil with a host of breakdown and nutrient miners to carry on their work in the root zone, so its a feed and help in continual release of locked nutrient.

Foliar spraying will as I said feed the plant directly through the leaves, as all the free nutrients are in a usable form, so plants love it, but it is of little use to a diseased plant as a curative, except in that it helps feed the plant, its true that well fed plants with good balance of nutrients will have more resistance to infections, but they are not immune, so it could well help prevent infections in the first place.

Every thing has its place, I hope this helps.

[I Zimbra]

Yes it does help thankyou, ofcourse I'm going to have to speak up for my beloved AACT's ha ha! In a brew made from a quality compost you will find hundreds and hundreds of thousands different species of bacteria not to mention fungi, nematodes and Protozoa, yes there will be some bad folk in there but these are generaly anaerobic loving species tho some will survive in aerobic conditions it's likely that they will be out competed by the beneficials as it's they're home ground. When this tea is then applied to the leaf (atleast 70% both top and bottom) the billions of bacteria etc then compete with the pathogens for leaf space and it's exudates thus controlling and most likely eliminating the pathogens, further aplications may even provide protective barrier preventing further attack, add to that the nutitional value and bingo!

You do have to put in a bit of effort but you get out what you put in.

[oldtimer1]

That may be the theory I Zimbra, but it does not work in the real world, with tomatoes and potatoes, plants sprayed and drenched throughout their life go down with both early and late blight at exactly the same time as untreated plants and with the same severity. Like wise it gives no protection against either white tip leek fungus or leek and garlic rust, it gives no root protection for onions against white rot or neck rot, it does absolutely nothing against the common mildew devastation on Courgette, pumpkin and cucumber leaves that comes late season every year. It does nothing against clubroot in brassicas.

Indoors with cannabis, it does not protect against leaf spot, in fact once infected it seems to accelerate the diseases progress, the same thing with verticillium and fusarium wilts.

We try and give advise here that really works in the grow room! Being an evangelist for something that does the job is one thing, but claiming it does something it plainly does not do, is giving bad information to our members. I've read the claims on compost tea sites, most of it is total bullshit, snake oil claims of cures.

I'm really into organic growing, composting, worm farming, worm, compost, comfrey teas and recycling, I have been nearly all my life. I read all the time, I try to see if the claims are true, if they don’t stand up and its fairy tales being propagated I say so.

[I Zimbra]

that's fine, I have no problem with that tho I do think it somewhat foolish to dismiss AACTs as snake oil claims and fairy tales. I do not force anybodies hand I merely put an option out. My personal experience with AACTs has been nothing but possitive and my brewer has become the best tool I have in the grow room, it cost me about a tenner to make and each brew costs pennies! Fortunately I do not have any of the disease mentioned, I put that down to my plants being in an extremely healthy soil through which they have the ability to fight such pathogens. I do not post things that I don't think will help nor do I take anything away from the essence, piranha, tarantula or whatever else

[Randalizer]

Very cool I Zimbra. I'm glad your methodology is doing good things for you. It's nice when we can share success stories with each other and then pick and choose from that what is applicable to our own situations at hand.

Edited August 23, 2008 by felix_dzerjinski

[oldtimer1]

Look I am in no way dismissing the value of compost and or wormpost teas, they are very good for all plant life and beneficial to the soil by introducing micro flora.

What they do do is build up whatever of the beneficial soil micro organisms are present in the compost they are made from and populate what ever medium or soil they are put into. What they don’t have and can not pass on are are other beneficials like endo and ecto Mycorrhizals, these need to be in dormant spoor form, these need to be put into direct contact with live roots to rapidly grow and populate the root ball, they can be passed from plant to plant in nature by root contact between an inoculated root system and an uninoculated plant. You can even make a type of inoculant yourself by inoculating plants then chopping up the root mass and putting this into contact with with fresh small plants root systems, this has to be done quickly as once root are severed the mycelium does not live very long on root fragments.

In nature beneficial Mycorrhizae grow and spread very slowly, a whole forest of hundreds or even thousands of acres may be interconnected by the same protective mycelium network, one plant. Tilling and cultivating inhibits this type of interdependent symbiotic relationship. Modern farming destroys it completely.

We are lucky, money has been put into researching the very best Mycorrhizal types of fungi, they have been isolated multiplied and spoor cultures made of them, we can inoculate each of our plants with a tiny pinch. If you wanted to, you could reuse root fragments to pass the culture on to new plants. I suspect most will find it easier to go to a garden centre and just buy another pack of rootgrow or get some plant magic from webby.

There are thousands of types of trichoderma, only a tiny amount are beneficial, some are even pretty nasty human pathogens. They are present in all soil and on/in living and rotting plant material.

Again the fact that ongoing research is identifying types that in nature work beneficially in symbiosis with plants, well to me this is brilliant, some that colonise the root zone and others that colonise the aerial parts of the plant, if it were mainly these type of cultures you were passing on in a tea the plants would indeed be protected against fungal infections, they are plant benign fungus that are aggressive to plant pathogenic fungus. Just because leaves have a population of bacteria and fungi does not protect the plant by crowding out pathogenic or new spoors or bacteria, all plant surfaces, in fact all surfaces are populated including you, for the plant to be protected the population needs to be of the right types, You don’t get that from a compost tea, you get a mix of all those normally occurring in your particular compost. There may well be a few of the right type but they will be ones in millions. With pure spoor cultures you get only the right types that attack invading fungi.

I have cultivated just over an eighth of an acre growing fruit vegetables and flowers for over forty years. For me the grower it is being part of a constant war between me getting to eat what I grow against all the other things that want to do the same thing, its a constant battle against the insects, mites, diseases/fungal infections, animals and me. Its the same for every gardener and farmer. So when I read about things I try them to see if they work, believe me if things work, people use them, I try and do things in accord with nature. If compost teas worked to cure infected plants, every one but every one would be using it, its so easy to do, the brutal truth is they don’t cure or even protect, they as I already said help a little as healthy plants fed a balanced diet, like humans will have more resistance to infections, brewed teas do that by supplying recycled plant used nutrients and minerals and an abundance of soil fauna.

So what this topic is about, I started using Mycorrhizal inoculants quite a few years ago, I found it gave big improvements, not just in the canna grow room but also on my allotment, where I might say there are a host on endemic diseases that come from over a hundred years of semi intense cultivation. Several people reported about it here, others tried it and found it good, it works.

When it came to spray inoculants, these are more recent, I was given a sample, did not really believe it would work so did not use it, it just sat in a draw. Then a friend got leaf spot in his mother/grow room, he tried everything, from compost tea to sulphur and systemic fungicides, over 2 years it was a loosing battle, I went along and tried the inoculant, it stopped the fungus in its tracks, gradually we worked out a programme, as it came back, now he has been clean for about two years and all he does is spray his mums a few times a year. I mentioned it to friend here, it worked for them as well, all I can say is if you ever do get an infection in your grow room, try it, because I know of at least a 100 people who it has also worked for, also of 3 for whom it did not work. While it costs a few quid rather than pennies, if it cures its well worth it IMHO!

This information comes from years of having to deal with and treating diseases and finding what works, it does not come from reading about it, but as I said before from real life. So when something does not prevent or act as a curative, I feel its fair to say claiming it does is like selling snake oil. Teas are just another tool in our armoury, just as inoculants are, for sure they are not a replacement.

[I Zimbra]

OT i hear what your saying and i do not dispute that specific cultures bred for the job in a lab are better for eradicating such things nor do i question your gardening ability, infact i question nothing. i simply say that AACTs can be used as protection both on the leaf and in the soil, its no magic cure its compost and it puts in what the compost contains, it doesnt just increase the microbes allready present it adds a more diverse range, however if the soils structure is one that cannot house a certain species of bacteria/fungi then that species will lose its battle for survival to a more adept species, which is as im sure you know, why adding such things as rock dust, sand, silt etc improves the plants robustness as it provides nutrients and different surfaces that have the ability to house a more diverse soil life.

i agree that its easier to just buy a bag of this or that but i will argue that AACTs will form a defensive layer on the leaf which compete for space and exudates, just as in the soil. so if a compost is used with high microbial activity, once it is brewed and the flora has multiplied into its billions, this will if applied correctly and of the correct dominance, start to get a strangle hold on the problem through starving its competion of food.

obviously the quality of compost used is everything and how you manipulate it for fungal or bacterial dominance is also a large factor, it also has a peak and a very short life span so needs to be used within hours,you can add mycorrhizal fungi at the end of a brew, it takes practice just like everything and its not for everyone, but like i say its working wonders for me

[Felix Dzerzhinsky]

There are thousands of types of trichoderma, only a tiny amount are beneficial, some are even pretty nasty human pathogens. They are present in all soil and on/in living and rotting plant material.

I Zimbra, I'm not knocking you or AACT's as I think they are a wonderful source of nutrition and also build up the micro herd at the same time. I would like to echo OT's point about using a known blend of beneficial organisms when fighting disease. There are many many species of Trichoderma most live on decaying wood and help break it down, some evolved to parasitise other fungi that were also breaking down rotting wood and then a further group branched out from there to attack fungi parasitising green plants. Nearly all Trichoderma species that parasitise other fungi live in the root zone and virtually none of them are able to survive in the phytoplane, however there are a few and they go into the Essence mix.

As these are very specialised fungi that don't generally live in compost heaps it's unlikely you'll find them in a compost tea. Now although compost teas are excellent and may confer some protection from opportunist infections by fully exploiting cell exudates and occupying most of the space they won't contain the correct Trichoderma element which is essential when dealing with an established and aggressive fungal infection and could possibly even feed an attacker.

As I said I've no wish to knock AACT's as they are a fantastic way of feeding and protecting your plants but they shouldn't be promoted as doing the same job as Essence, they may do a somewhat similar job but I'd rather use Essence when fighting an established infection. Essence can also be mixed with RootGrow to add bacteria and Trichoderma to RootGrow.

[oldtimer1]

I Zimbra I’m sorry but I don’t think you are listening or taking in what I’m saying. If I read you right you are saying since using your brew your plants are better for it in every way, I would expect that.

People go years with no fungal infections in a grow room, what do you have to show that your brew is giving any protection what so ever? All you know is that you don’t have any infection up to now. I assume what you have read leads you to state that the brew is the reason.

Every thing I have done trying actively aerated compost teas to protect my plants against yearly common fungal diseases that afflict all gardeners and farmers have failed. "Miserably". So I just did a look online to see if there was any proper evidence that came from reputable independent university research, I could find none confirming that compost teas could suppress disease. I would love a simple system like AAC for disease protection, there are hundreds of independant research papers saying they don’t, its quite interesting that they confirm exactly what I found, and I have been trying different methods for over ten years. This reveiw just about sums it up.

Linda Chalker-Scott, Ph.D., Extension Horticulturist and Associate Professor,

Puyallup Research and Extension Center, Washington State University

The Myth of Compost Tea, Episode III:

"Aerobically-brewed compost tea suppresses disease"

The Myth

No Myth topic has generated more interest, or controversy, than the purported ability of compost teas to

suppress disease. With few exceptions, the popular and gray literature extols the virtues of aerated

compost teas (ACTs). Literature for the gardening public uses phrases such as “lush foliage”, “beautiful

blooms”, “delicious fruits and vegetables”, and “thick green turf” to describe the effect of compost tea on

particular plants. More broadly, usage of ACT promises to “improve all soils”, “provide beneficial

organisms”, and “keep garden plants, turf, and crops free of disease”. Environmental benefits are

guaranteed too: ACT “reduces dependence on chemicals” and “reduces fertilizer use and leaching into

ground water”. An industry article reports “several studies have successfully controlled plant diseases

and increased plant growth with compost teas” (though no evidence was presented to support this claim).

First mentioned in this column in April 2001, compost teas were last reviewed in August 2003 (both of

these columns are available on this web site and will not be reviewed here). In that same time, Google

hits have increased from 1900 to 4000 to nearly 13,000 on dot-com sites alone. An article in the trade

magazine Biocycle states that the compost tea industry is growing at an estimated 25% per year.

Obviously, the marketing of compost tea for disease suppression has become a bigger business in the last

two years. Has the science behind the practice grown as well?

The Reality

Two recent literature reviews (Litterick et al., 2004 and Scheuerell & Mahaffee, 2002) on the role of

compost tea in disease control report that non-aerated compost tea (NCT) can be effective in reducing

some foliar pathogens in laboratory, greenhouse and field studies (which is in agreement with my August

2003 column). NCTs require no special equipment and cost virtually nothing to produce. In contrast,

there are very few published studies on ACT efficacy. This doesn’t mean ACTs aren’t being researched,

however. In addition to the articles cited in the two review papers, the web contains a number of research

reports from university scientists recently or currently involved in ACT research. Briefly, here is a

summary of their results (2003-2005):

Crop Disease ACT Effective? Institution

Cornell University

Tomato Septoria No

Powdery mildew No

Bacterial speck No

Iowa State University

Tomato Septoria No

Cornell University

Pumpkin Powdery mildew No

Bacterial wilt No

Downy mildew No

Ohio State University

Squash Powdery mildew No

University of Minnesota

Rose Black spot No

Powdery mildew No

Michigan State University

Apples Apple scab No

Cornell University

Wine grapes Phomopsis No

Downy mildew No

Black rot No

Potato leafhopper No

European red mite No

Penn State

Wine grapes Powdery mildew Some

(greenhouse) Botrytis Some

Wine grapes Powdery mildew No

(field)

Rutgers University

Turf grass Brown patch No

(An additional focus of published compost tea research is the discovery of human pathogens, such as E.

coli, in some ACTs. Though discussion of the topic is beyond the scope of this column, fecal

contamination of compost teas is a health issue of serious concern to the EPA and other agencies.)

This represents the current state of university science behind the efficacy of aerated compost tea in

disease control. Will these results be published in the peer-reviewed scientific literature? One hopes so,

but the reality is that many scientists don’t publish “negative” results and instead move on to other more

promising areas of research. This is unfortunate as the science behind compost tea is very young and

requires, as all researchers agree, substantial research before the hypothesis of disease control can be

supported.

What do compost tea producers say about these negative results? Often, there is criticism of tea microbial

content, the tea brewing process, the application process, weather conditions, other environmental

stresses, etc. – in other words, the fault is not with the product. However, the overwhelming lack of

positive results in university ACT studies suggests that the hypothesis might be in error and need to be

revised. And even if the criticisms were justified, then how realistic can such a technology be for the

typical home- or business owner who wants to make and apply their own compost tea?

This is the real problem I see in the world of compost tea, which is the selling of a product whose use is

based on faith rather than science. As one proponent states, “There is no doubt in my mind that compost

tea has already proven to be beneficial to agriculture.” Individuals with this mind-set are not open to

having their beliefs challenged by scientists or anyone else. However, buying expensive “tea brewers”,

purchasing ready made “tea” at several dollars a gallon, or paying a company to apply ACT in the

absence of objective data sounds like snake oil rather than science.

There are thousands of web sites with glowing anecdotal praise for compost tea used as a foliar spray.

What seems to be missing are stories from the other side – from those business and home owners who

haven’t seen differences in disease control or have even noted increased incidence and severity of disease.

In the interest of a fair and balanced discussion, I am developing a web page for reporting these anecdotes

as they are submitted to me. Feel free to send them in – you can remain anonymous if you wish.

There is no scientific evidence for ACT disease control on turf or landscape materials. Since ACT is not

registered by the EPA as a pesticide, it is illegal to recommend its use as one, or to apply it as such to

another person’s landscape. Though some commercial sites disclose this regulatory fact, they also coyly

include anecdotal information extolling the disease-suppressing properties of their product. Laundering

product information to get around federal pesticide regulations is unethical. Misrepresentation of the

science behind compost tea represents, at best, landscape management decisions based on faith rather than

science. At worst, it suggests corporate profits at the expense of well-meaning but gullible consumers.

The Bottom Line

• Aerated compost tea use for disease control continues to lack scientific credentials

• There is no documented science supporting the use of ACT on turf and landscape materials

• ACT is not registered as a pesticide and cannot legally be recommended or applied as one

• ACTs have been demonstrated to harbor human pathogens, including E. coli

• There is a rapidly growing, compost tea industry that continues to downplay the lack of reputable

science behind the product

• Uses of products or processes for landscape management should be based on objective plant and

soil science, not blind faith or commercial gain

Litterick, A.M., L. Harrier, P. Wallace, C.A. Watson and M. Wood. 2004. The role of uncomposted

materials, composts, manures, and compost extracts in reducing pest and disease incidence and severity in

sustainable temperate agricultural and horticultural crop production – a review. Critical Reviews in Plant

Science, 23(6):453-479.

Scheuerell, S. and W. Mahaffee. 2002. Compost tea: principles and prospects for plant disease control.

Compost Science and Utilization, 10(4): 313-338.

For more information, please visit Dr. Chalker-Scott’s web page at http://www.theinformedgardener.com.