Dieu Et Mon Droit

[Culchi]

Thought this story might interest some people: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3948329.stm - it's an old story, which I've read before, but it does make you wonder at the mentality of some people - should cannabis users start their own religion? Is it truly the Devil's Weed, or does it bring you closer to an understanding of God, the Universe, life and all the shit that goes with it? Buddha is said to have sat under the bodai tree for 3 years (I think it was 3 years), eating only one hemp seed a day, before his enlightenment - how much is truth and how much myth? Was he really on an oz a week? If, as Ann Widdecombe suggests, God gave us free will, isn't it therefore wrong for a so-called Christian society to remove that God-given right? Each little flower that opens, each little bird that sings...

[T1]

i never knew about that story, interesting if a little weird

There are already religons dedicated to Cannabis, infact i am a card carying member of the cannabis assembly and class myself as a Canthiest, for more information see www.cannabisassembly.org

[Culchi]

Thanks for the info T1 - I'll have to look into it - since the story's 3 years old, I'm wondering if there's a Satanic cult in the navy by now - having thoughts of sailors sacrificing goats, chickens and virgins on HMS Ark Royal... the mind boggles - - Keep the faith! :wink:

[T1]

The mind boggles at way may be going on, on board them ships.

we can probably take it as a given that there is a probably quite a satanic following onboard!!!

[Culchi]

I'll have to look into how many goats the navy has... or had... and then there's those regimental ones the army and air force have... it's really spreading... where's it all going to end? when? If I join, can I tell the police that Satan makes me smoke it?

[lordie]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm sacrificing virgin goats, that is always a fun thing to do. Although its quite hard to tell if they're virgins........I'm sorry guys but regarding religions they're all shite, created and designed to subjugate the masses. I prefer herbal philosophy, its better for your state of mind and easier on the ears of potential converts. Religion tells you how you should be, philosophy gives you the tools to accept yourself as you are (generally).

[Culchi]

Trust a philosopher to start an argument... - not big on religions myself, though to be fair, they are each generally accepted philosophies in their own right - I quite like Buddhism as such - anything with Bud in it can't be all bad huh? Not that I'm going to shave my head and wear an orange robe - I think they're kinda missing the point. (Bruce Lee - Enter the Dragon - "Like someone pointing to the Moon - do not stare at the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory".) A person's belief and subsequent belief system, imho, is ultimately a personal thing, influenced perhaps by outside factors and forces, but inevitably changes only through contrary strong evidence. Rastafarians, for example, refer to weed as Lamb's Bread - could Jesus and his mates have shared some ganja at the last supper? Is that why it is supressed? Religion and State go hand in hand, perhaps as you suggest and as I've thought myself, for the subjugation of the nations.

Cannabis for some, like money to others, is a tool, a means to an end, again, imho. It isn't, nor should it ever be, the be-all and end-all of anyone's life, merely a part of it, should they so desire, should it somehow inspire them to greater things, etc. Writers such as Stephen King and Salman Rushdie, for example, are self-confessed cannabis users - in the 18th century, cannabis was given out at parties to "promote hilarity" and French philosphers used it on a regular basis in coffee shops. Descartes believed animals don't suffer, yet circa 500BC Buddha taught that ALL life is suffering. A 15th Century doctor wrote, "Praise be to the Lord for providing his people with opium to relieve his suffering." That was at a time when you could buy a ha'penny's worth of "elevation" for a week. A Nigerian, speaking of the military coup of his country and the subsequent banning of cannabis use, described it as, "Basically it meant we had to stop getting stoned and develop our country." In the USA, the government is still trying to have the Indian use of the peyote cacti's mescaline in religious practice banned. Surely there is only one truth and it is not only each and every person's right to know it, but their duty too, by whatever means they themselves deem necessary, so long as, like the basic philosophy of most religions, no-one is harmed in the process and, perhaps also in the process, make the world a better place to live in?

As for philosophy empowering ourselves, I'd have to agree somewhat, but then point out that Capitalism is a practised and preached philosophy that improves the quality of life of certain individuals, at the detrimental cost of many others. Do the needs of the one ever outweigh the needs of the many? One might say that Christians talk to an imaginary friend, but then a drug addict has many imaginary friends that only appear when they have no drugs and they know the addict does - they're not called "users" for nothing - Someone once said - Forget all that you know and all that you think you know - the first step to knowledge begins by admitting we know nothing. Who knows, maybe Satanism is the only true religion - if it's not, God certainly has a twisted sense of humour :wink: Apologies for the length of this post. Nothing like a good religious debate to get the morning off to a start eh?

[Arnold Layne]

Anne Widdecombe, if indeed she insists on "Free Will" as a Christian, is without doubt a heretic. Through the agse Christian Theology has treated "Free Will" as a heresy. Augustine lambasted it in his era, Calvin and the English Reformers (Cranmer et al) in the Reformation period did the same (See the Book of Common Prayer - you'll find no free will in there).

Satanism. I do believe a very ancient tribe in remotest Iraq (or thereabouts) still parctices the authentic and original Satanism. It predates Judaism and Christianity if my memory serves me at all correctly, and is far from an "evil" practice. Rather Judaism and Christianity (which may both be said to spring from the ancient Mesopotamian Theologies) demonised it and twisted it. I think. I need to go an re-read the book I got this from, its all quite fascinating.

As is the changeover to male deities and male headmanship with the arrival of writing (Mesopotamia again, hinted at in the Abrahamic texts). Seems we let our left brain get out of hand. This is why I prefer private, personal spiritual practice over overt "Religion". In my experience, the best of spiritual prcatice comes when the logic centres are re-balanced, and the right brain allowed free range. Then the Godess comes back in view, as does holism.

Abraham got it wrong. He attached testicles to JHWH, a bad move, and one that Moses amplified and took as central. In reality, Genesis and the Mosaic code just form a mysogenist text designed to drive the Godess into oblivion. Hence the attack on the Golden Calf (which I take as a decidedly female symbol - western theology swallows too much and sees it as male, a bull. But in truth the bull's horns are symbolic in the ancient world of the feminine womb and genitalia, of female fecundity), which was a revertion to godess worship.

Ooops, sorry - went off on one.

carry on

[Twenty Three]

Satanism. I do believe a very ancient tribe in remotest Iraq (or thereabouts) still parctices the authentic and original Satanism. It predates Judaism and Christianity if my memory serves me at all correctly, and is far from an "evil" practice.

It sounds like you're thinking about the Kurdish Yezidi Arnold,whose beliefs see Melek Haus the Peacock Angel as pre-eminent amongst the seven Angels (although they could equally be called demons or gods) who care for the Single Creator-created world.Melek Haus has been equated with Shaytan/Satan by some Muslims and Christians,but like you say,the Yezidi's worship of him isn't an evil practice as Melek Haus himself is not seen as being evil.

[Culchi]

Very interesting indeed Arnold. I did read somewhere before that the Israelites "borrowed" their god, "Yahweh" (I am that I am, or something like that) from a tribe of mountain people who originally lived in the area. I guess somewhere the facts have been bent, twisted, censored, obscurred, etc, till we are left with just the present, with possibly no future, and can only try to imagine what happened thousands of years ago, or if you're stoned enough, what happened 5 minutes ago - the victor writes history, as they say.

I would agree with you that religion, or spiritualism if you prefer, is a personal thing, often subject to questions and intolerance, though perhaps the one who should ask the most questions is the believers themselves. If we do not question our own beliefs, how can we justify ourselves to others who might otherwise believe us mad? The question of "free will" is a subject for debate on its own - do we have it and, if so, to what extent? Did God really "give each man the choice"? Was Buddha right in saying that there are gods and godesses but that they have no real interest in us? Exactly how much of us is genetically engineered, or learned through social interaction? Is there an extreme either way, with only one being right and the other wrong?

I would tend to say it's a matter for one's own conscience, which in itself does not take into consideration such persons as sociopaths, though there is some researchers who believe psychopaths have an extra Y chromosome (XYY) - so could it all be down to genetics? If so, where does our thinking come from? Are thoughts merely electro-chemical impulses stimulating an organic mass? Is there really such a thing as freedom, or is that just an ideal or a concept? Do we really follow a predetermined path? Karma? Does living in a "free society" simply mean the authorities provide you with "enough rope to hang yourself"? In an increasingly policed world, wherein eventually (if not already) everything will be illegal, illicit, or ill-advised, what's the point in living? Is anarchy, ultimately, the only hope for humanity? Whatever the case may be, thanks for the input, Arnold - I would agree with you in that it is a fascinating subject, something to meditate on next time I'm stoned - which should hopefully be just after lunch when the phone rings - OMG, my life's getting predictable again.... ah well, what can ya do? Cheers

Edited July 4, 2007 by Nettle-Grower

[Father McPot]

Buddha is said to have sat under the bodai tree for 3 years (I think it was 3 years), eating only one hemp seed a day, before his enlightenment - how much is truth and how much myth?

Buddha ate one hemp or mustard seed a week at one point during his "ascetic" period. He was near to death and realised that it was not the way to enlightenment. He found the Middle Way and used meditation to reach enlightenment instead. The amount of time he sat under the tree is debatable, I read while studying Buddhism that it was months, and another source said it was weeks...

Abraham got it wrong. He attached testicles to JHWH, a bad move, and one that Moses amplified and took as central. In reality, Genesis and the Mosaic code just form a mysogenist text designed to drive the Godess into oblivion. Hence the attack on the Golden Calf (which I take as a decidedly female symbol - western theology swallows too much and sees it as male, a bull. But in truth the bull's horns are symbolic in the ancient world of the feminine womb and genitalia, of female fecundity), which was a revertion to godess worship.

Reminds me of something I read earlier: (regarding bread being turned into christs' body) "Even more astounding, this Miracle can only happen if the Priest has a Willy. protestants, Jews, Zen Buddhists, etc. have ordained many female clergy-persons in recent decades, but the Vatican remains firm in the principle that only a male - a human with a Willy - can transform the "essence" of bread into the "essence" of a dead body." - Quantum Psychology by Robert Anton Wilson (Taking a while to read it, been reading other stuff in between)

[Boojum]

The idea of the sacrament - the eating of the flesh of the Gods, is another thing that catholicism has stolen from earlier religions. There is a school of thought that puts forward the idea that the whole point of the sacrament was to usurp the 'pagan' practices of Europe, many of whom did indeed eat the flesh of the gods - hallucinogenic plants and fungi, and that the sacrament was merely invented to make the new religion that was coming to oust their old beliefs more palatable to them, albeit without the divine revelation that their sacraments actually provided.

[Culchi]

You mean those little wafers aren't really bits of Jesus?

[Boojum]

Can you imagine what beings from another planet would make of catholicism if witnessed from afar ?

"These earthlings worship a man in a dress (cos whatever catholics claim, they worship the pope) who speaks a language that's been dead for centuries, they feel guilt because a man died centuries before they were even born - a man who had the physical characteristics of a part of their planet called Europe in their minds, even though he was born to a race called the Jews in a completely different part of the planet, and their deity encourages cannibalism. I suggest we blow the planet up immediately"

Edited July 4, 2007 by Boojum

[Culchi]

I think I've been censored - not surprised - sorry guys - was meant as a joke on all of us (ie - humanity in general).Now there's another question - humanity - what is it? Does it really exist, or is it too just an ideal?