Squaggles Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Serious question , which bit is true ? New testament , old testament , revelations , all of it ? Put your cards on the table , what do you believe ? coming from a JW point of view the bible without the JW teaching and read on its own is far more true. thats def like a breath of fresh air.Everything is WALOB isnt it thats so easy to say . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
road Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Serious question , which bit is true ? New testament , old testament , revelations , all of it ? Put your cards on the table , what do you believe ? Good question. if you can believe in one truth: if you can be sure Jesus rose from the dead then its easy to believe its all true. So to me all of the bible is true. If you think about the prophesies about Jesus from the old testament, and the other prophesies that came true, fullfilled prophesies def help u believe it is true. It was prophesised that John the Baptist would come before Jesus to prepare His way and let everyone know he was coming, and yes john the baptist did come before Jesus and prepared his way as was prohesised. Thats one example. Of course the JW's have done some wrong things with the prophesy... they somehow manage to think that Jesus has already returned to earth (by doing some maths with the numbers like Homer did in the simpsons), so from this maths they think he came invisibly in 1914 and since then his kingdom is with us and as usual they continue to say (and have said since the JWs came along around 1800) that we are living in the last days. But the prophesies are easy to understand, they dont need you to put 1000 years for a day in an equation just because somewhere else it says "With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day". As well as prophesy, you can see in the gospels how He lived.. miracles, creation, his teachings, dying on a cross for saying He is the son of God. He would either have to be insane to do that with His life, or He was who He claimed to be. The msg of the bible to me is: 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.". John 3:16 And revelations is a class book even if you dont believe in the bibles msg. Here is just one of many verses that shows us how to we can come to believe in God: "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me." Revelation 3:20 ...thats whats true to me, now (if u read it) arent you sorry you asked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 (edited) Imamaculate conception or lunar eclispe :rofl:All that unopen heart and stubborness well looks like i`ll be getting tortued on a raft floating on the lake of fire for all my sins Edited July 6, 2007 by snowdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojum Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Sorry, but even with my extremely limited knowledge of the bible (eitrher the Jewish old testament or the christian new testament), there's absolutely no place at all in the old testament that even remotely mentions Jesus. Not in terms of the new testament. So what's true ? are you Jewish or are you a follower of a disputed "new testament" that has patently had much of it suppressed by those in power, the papacy most recently but many others before. How can you even slightly believe a work of fiction that has been created by the people in power, how can you believe some teachings while others have been suppressed ? And even if you believe the judaic roots of the 'bible' how can you belive the ideas that they stole from the tribes that came before them ? Sorry, but that's absolute arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdog Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Pie in the sky .I was told jehovah is god by christians where i done some carpentry(jesus was a carpenter) think i read somewhere that these evangelist love to help other misfortunate people.Because what use would it be if it hadnt helped them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormstella Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Sorry, but even with my extremely limited knowledge of the bible (eitrher the Jewish old testament or the christian new testament), there's absolutely no place at all in the old testament that even remotely mentions Jesus. Not in terms of the new testament. So what's true ? are you Jewish or are you a follower of a disputed "new testament" that has patently had much of it suppressed by those in power, the papacy most recently but many others before. How can you even slightly believe a work of fiction that has been created by the people in power, how can you believe some teachings while others have been suppressed ? And even if you believe the judaic roots of the 'bible' how can you belive the ideas that they stole from the tribes that came before them ?Sorry, but that's absolute arse. There is many things written about jesus christ in the old testament. The remarkable structure of the Bible should also be stressed. Although it is a collection of 66 books, written by 40 or more different men over a period of 2,000 years, it is clearly one Book, with perfect unity and consistency throughout. Jesus himself fulfilled over 300 prophecies concerning himself. 'we find that the chance that any man might have lived down to the present time and fulfilled all eight prophecies is 1 in 1017." That would be 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000. In order to help us comprehend this staggering probability, Stoner illustrates it by supposing that "we take 1017 silver dollars and lay them on the face of Texas. They will cover all of the state two feet deep. "Now mark one of these silver dollars and stir the whole mass thoroughly, all over the state. Blindfold a man and tell him that he can travel as far as he wishes, but he must pick up one silver dollar and say that this is the right one. What chance would he have of getting the right one? Just the same chance that the prophets would have had of writing these eight prophecies and having them all come true in any one man." Stoner considers 48 prophecies and says, "we find the chance that any one man fulfilled all 48 prophecies to be 1 in 10157, or 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. The estimated number of electrons in the universe is around 1079. It should be quite evident that Jesus did not fulfil the prophecies by accident." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dr rockster Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Sorry Stormstella but saying he fulfilled 300 prophecies is just rubbish I'm afraid. Your blind faith makes you accept any old claptrap without question which is just so sad. You talk of uniformity and conformity.... Do me favour pal! These inconsistencies are glaring in the extreme and it just saddens me that human beings can actually use the first testament as a factual reference work! Spose you are gonna tell me the virgin birth is for real? Ball's in your court................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormstella Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 (edited) Sorry Stormstella but saying he fulfilled 300 prophecies is just rubbish I'm afraid. Your blind faith makes you accept any old claptrap without question which is just so sad. You talk of uniformity and conformity.... Do me favour pal! These inconsistencies are glaring in the extreme and it just saddens me that human beings can actually use the first testament as a factual reference work! Spose you are gonna tell me the virgin birth is for real? Ball's in your court................... How is that rubbish it is written in the bible jesus did fulfill over 300 prophecies what do you know? have you ever read the bible? Edited July 6, 2007 by stormstella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squaggles Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Where did you get that from Stormstella ? Who is stoner ? If you cut and paste something at least give us a source . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dr rockster Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Cover to bloody cover with a priest standing behind me to give me a thrashing if I havent learn certain sections by wrote. If you believe in superstition that's your lookout but don't try to tout 'facts' where there are none as it insults my intelligence quite frankly. C' mon,do you believe in the virgin birth? Lets take that one supposed and much touted supernatural act and talk about what you know about and what I know about it. A fair starting point for discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 How is that rubbish it is written in the bible jesus did fulfill over 300 prophecies what do you know? have you ever read the bible? I have, about 30 times, cover to cover, and the Psalms I have studied and read over 500 times now. I have also preached whole series of sermons through many of the Biblical books. What you are doing is reciting Evangelical Theology. There are other views, and they tend to be more reasonable. I suggest you try broadening your horizon. I know its hard, I was an Evangelical Preacher for twenty odd years before I realised how blind I had become, how overtaken by the evangelical viewpoint. To say that the Bible has incredible structure and unity just shows how edited and shaped it is. It is not what you think The OT in particular is full of political intrigue and social engineering. The predictions you speak of are just a hindsighted justification of the alleged life of Jesus, which is itself an Apostolic creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr8LondonSun Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 so what are your arguments against a virgin birth Dr. ? It's not just Christianity which holds Jesus as a very important prophet, Islam believes that Jesus didnt die, that he wa replaced by a man in his image on the cross, and that Isa(as he is called in arabic) is the only living man in heaven, who will return on judgement day. Muslims also believe in the virgin birth- i think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr8LondonSun Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 For those in the know - how different is the Coptic bible, or the Makabe (think thats what its called)bible? How re-written is the bible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormstella Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 (edited) Well i am sorry you had a bad experience with priests and wot not. Sounds to me like a catholic priest trying to force the bible upon you in some way i dont know, if it was i disagree with treatment like that. But to say that i have blind faith is unfair and completely unfounded. The bible was written by 40 different authors spanning over 50 generations, these guys did not even know eachother and there writing all agreed on things such as morality. If you look at society now things change in just under a generation on everything. The bible is also scientifically correct hundreds of years in advance i can give examples Deut. 23:12-13. Thou shalt have a place also without the camp, whither thou shalt go forth abroad: And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee. In the eighteenth century in Europe, human excrement was cast into the streets of cities in ignorance, giving rise to epidemics of typhoid, cholera and dysentery. Gen. 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which [is] not of thy seed. The command to circumcise Jewish boys on the eighth day was no accident. The important blood clotting vitamin K2 in blood is not manufactured in a baby's intestinal tract in normal amounts until the 5th to 7th day of their lives. A second element necessary for blood clotting is prothrombin 3. The presence of this element decreases in an infant for the first 3 days of its life, then suddenly spurts to a maximum level on the eighth day, after which it settles to its norm for the rest of the child's life. There used to think the earth was flat If they read the bible they would of known different Isa 40:22. [it is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: In 1956 a book was written about the grand prophecies regarding the Lord Jesus 10. It contained the following challenge to the world. (1) Show that there is another book than the Bible in the literature of the world that contains prophecies about a coming Messiah, similar to those in the Bible; and after a lapse of four hundred years gives evidence of a definite fulfillment, in twenty or more details. (2) Produce any "Christ," living or dead (other than Jesus of Nazareth) who can fulfill even half of the predictions concerning Messiah that we give in this book. We would ask of any who claims or who claimed to be the true Messiah:" (12 specific events relative to the Biblical Messiah are then listed.) To our knowledge, this reward has never been claimed! I could go on and on but i doubt it would make a difference to you! Edited July 6, 2007 by stormstella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Nowhere does the Bible teach a virgin birth. A divine conception, yes; but a virgin birth - well, that's a misnoma right there. So let us discuss the credibility of the idea that the Spirit of God could create a human foetus in a woman's womb, without the aid of sperm. Given a faith in Divine Creation of the universe, this would appear to be a minor, albeit redemptively significant, view. Probably a Paulinist slant, given credibility to his "Old/New Adam" Theology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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