Incandescent supplementation for LED

[inceywinceyspider]

I thought it might be interesting to start a thread about this now.

 

It seems proven that leaf surface temperatures are important, with hid lighting the leaves were too hot and now with led too cool.

 

People sometimes supplement the led with an hid, often using a cmh, the intention being to make the leaves warmer. 

 

What I'm saying is that the led lights basically produce plenty of PAR light but none of the warming light which raises the leaf temperature.

 

Some time ago I built this deadly rig for my veg crab.

Essentially it's a 40w cooker/salt lamp lamp with a dimmer switch.

What this does is provide the warm light in a very controllable way to get just the right amount.

In this highly unscientific little setup I think the plants responded well and I used the lamp most of the time, increasing and decreasing the power as I saw fit.

 

I did do some research into the  idea of using incandescent lamps in a larger flower setup potentially using a reptile dimming thermostat to approximate leaf surface temperature control.

 

Now I just thought I'd share this with you all to discuss as it's a funny idea if nothing else.

 

 

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Interesting

Do you think it could provide a nicer environment than a 40w tube heater?

[MindSoup]

This is a brilliant idea, in a bigger space you could also use a carbon  infra red heater to do a similar thing, selectively adding a the missing IR as needed. 

Edited January 28 by MindSoup

[Clubs]

I think those flat heaters that hang on the wall work by emitting IR, which were designed specifically for LED growing. 

[catweazle1]

I have an aray 4x4 and this grow I'm going to use 250w of naked vertical HPS in the middle and top up the PAR with the LED.

Edited January 28 by catweazle1

[inceywinceyspider]

5 hours ago, Ronnie Hotdogs said:

Interesting

Do you think it could provide a nicer environment than a 40w tube heater?

I think you still need a heating system to control the ambient air temperature but the air temperature could be lowered to create a difference between the leaf surface temperature and the air temperature.

[inceywinceyspider]

4 hours ago, MindSoup said:

This is a brilliant idea, in a bigger space you could also use a carbon  infra red heater to do a similar thing, selectively adding a the missing IR as needed. 

It's the same principle as infrared heating, that you're heating the surfaces/people directly but I think they might be overkill, I'm talking about maybe 100 to 200w for a square meter.

[MindSoup]

Think the one in my living room is minimum 500 watts, so probably quite a bit space for that one then . 

 

What about the vivarium infrared bulbs they go from about 50 watts up iirc. 

[inceywinceyspider]

26 minutes ago, catweazle1 said:

I have an aray 4x4 and this grow I'm going to use 250w of naked vertical HPS in the middle and top up the PAR with the LED.

Aye, with the hid lights you're doing the same thing but as you say, topping up the par with the leds, to me it seems like the hid lights are really chosen for this purpose because that's what we used before they're familiar and probably the easiest thing to hand.

I'm suggesting going for a more measured approach where theres just the right amount of what's missing.

[inceywinceyspider]

5 minutes ago, MindSoup said:

Think the one in my living room is minimum 500 watts, so probably quite a bit space for that one then . 

 

What about the vivarium infrared bulbs they go from about 50 watts up iirc. 

Maybe, the reptile type ones seem a bit like they might have too narrow a beam. I think normal old school type light bulbs would be best if they were available still, being able to see and measure the light would help get even coverage.

The oven lamp or an array of them used might possibly work i didn't ever use it at full power, mostly between 1/4 & 1/2 power. Its really about flicking a bit in subtly rather than belting them.

[MindSoup]

Yeah you're right actually there, in a Viv you want a warm spot and a cooler area so your critters can move from one to the other as needed.  I just bought a ceramic Viv bulb and it's great for my needs but even the heat on that is like a beam, hardly any comes out the sides. 

 

I think I forgot for a second that all heat is IR, so really it's less about something having that in the name and more about it being wide angle radiant heat . 

Edited January 28 by MindSoup

[inceywinceyspider]

3 hours ago, Clubs said:

I think those flat heaters that hang on the wall work by emitting IR, which were designed specifically for LED growing. 

I dont know a whole lot about the laminated film heaters but they seem to be blackish which puts me off using them. It might be that this technology is good for commercial application if it were made the right shape to go in between the lights and controlled by an infrared sensor with some kind of dimming capability.

[Hazeytones]

I've been interested in these for keeping my roots warm. I didn't want to put heat mats under the bed, I've got two tube heaters on the floor at the sides of the bed but it can dry the sides out a bit. 

 

Only thing is any time I've seen pictures of them they are hanging vertically, I'd want to run it horizontally level with the bed but can't find any info if they can be run like that.

 

Another bulb you could have a look at is Mercury vapour bulbs I use them for my tortoise they have uva/uvb and  ir. Although if it was to add heat just they might not be what you want because I don't think you want to be blasting 12 to 18 hours of uv at your plants.

 

 

[inceywinceyspider]

You could try sticking a square of silver bubble or mylar hanging over the sides of the pots that face the heaters to shade them.

 

My first grow light was a mercury vapour 160w.

[Hazeytones]

That might not be a bad  idea mate, it's a fabric bed which is the problem if it was plastic I don't think there would be an issue.