Will I need extra calcium in coco ?

[RUFUS HOUND]

Ive been reading a little on coco and its attraction to calcium and wondered, since my tap water has a ratio of 10:1 cal:mg thiat might work to my advantage  

maybe I dont need extra calcium, as its got a fair amount in the tap water.

 

PS always need to add a bit of epsom to my water or I get mg deficiency in soil

 

Average mg/l 

Calcium Carbonate 110.66

Chloride 11.07
alkalinity (HCO3) 60.03 
Calcium 39.40
Magnesium 2.96
Sodium 8.70 
Sulphate 60.51

 

not sure if calcium carbonate will also be extracted as a calcium source by the coco - any ideas???

Edited December 11, 2023 by RUFUS HOUND

[RUFUS HOUND]

bump - anyone in coco ?

[Bud Baker]

I use to use cal mag from start to finish. This last year I drop cal mag after 21 - 28 days into flower. Dependant on var, but so far it works well. 
 

theoretically you shouldn’t need cal mag.

 

when I add cal mag my starting water is 0.2.

 

what is the base ec of your water pal?

[Bud Baker]

Calcium carbonate should also be taken into account as plants will use it 

[Bud Baker]

Sorry I have it backwards, calcium carbonate is insoluble and calcium that is usable is gluconate. I don’t know how this affects the coco. I’m sure it used in manufacturing of coco because it keeps a stable ph. 

[GSZZ]

1 hour ago, Bud Baker said:

Sorry I have it backwards, calcium carbonate is insoluble

 

It is, but what the end user pH's with matters in this case. Using something like Phosphoric acid (traditional pH down) causes the calcium carbonate to bind with the phosphoric acid to create calcium phosphate, where as Nitric Acid (dutch pro pH down grow is a good one) binds with the calcium carbonate to create Calcium Nitrate - which is part A of most nutrients, and the nitric acid, calcium carbonate reaction is how they actually make it in the first place. 

 

Good quality hard water nutrients compensate for this by reducing the amount of calcium nitrate in the part A and making the nitrogen back up with Nitric acid so it frees the calcium in the water, or a mixture of phosphoric acid and nitric acid to achieve somewhere in between. 

[RUFUS HOUND]

Thanks for the replies - I can post my water report if that helps

 

great info @GSZZ - can the plant or coco utilise the calcium phosphate ?

Interesting that calcium carbonate is insoluble, isnt it disolved in the tap water and thats why we get scale on kettles etc. ??? just thinking out load

 

sorry just trying to get my head around the coco

Am I right in thinking -  coco is full of phos and salts but as coco is more attracted to calcium / magnesium, it releases to phos /salts, when it takes on the  ca / mg 

As my coco is prebuffered - assume the coco is now full of calcium and/ or magnesium. As coc breaks down this makes more sites of phos/salt, which in turn get released when it takes on more cal/mg. I was wondering since I have high levels of calcuim in my water whether this would be enough without having to add a calcium supplement. 

 

Would I be advised to add slightly more epsom to my water when using coco?

 

Ive calibrated my meters and my tap water is

 

EC 300 uS

TDS 150 ppm

PH 7.2

 

Its not perticually hard but has a ca:mg ratio of approx 13:1 along with a boat load of calcium carbonate.

 

I had a little trail of the ph down (phos) and added 1ml into 1L tap water but it was far to strong and ph fell to 3.

So I put 1 ml into 50ml of water and then used that - much easier to get control of the ph without overshooting.

 

PS I have shogun nutes - for hard /soft water apparently.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by RUFUS HOUND

[RUFUS HOUND]

sorry that should have been coco releases potassium and salt not phos

[GSZZ]

1 hour ago, RUFUS HOUND said:

As my coco is prebuffered - assume the coco is now full of calcium and/ or magnesium. As coc breaks down this makes more sites of phos/salt, which in turn get released when it takes on more cal/mg. I was wondering since I have high levels of calcuim in my water whether this would be enough without having to add a calcium supplement. 

 

This is so inconsequential so as to be irrelevant. Its buffered to stop the coir stealing from your nutrient solution, which is what you're whittling about - so you needn't. At this point, coir specific nutrients are mostly a big blag and are little to no different than their hydro counter parts, they were necessary at one time because the coir wasn't as well buffered, but that's not the case now - you wont need to add "extra calcium" , you might have to add some epsom salts - but try without first. 

[RUFUS HOUND]

@GSZZ much appreciated, just trying to get my head round how this coco works.

 

sorry you thought I was whittering on but I dont know whats irrelevent or not yet, just trying to learn from you pros

 

[catweazle1]

You can use either calmag or Epsom to displace the ions you don't want in the coco; potassium and sodium. Potassium and sodium have an ion charge of +1 and Ca/Mg are +2, which can displace the +1 ions from the sites of cation exchange (CECs) in the coco that hold those ions.

[RUFUS HOUND]

just a quick update - using 2ml/L of the epsom solution in every litre of water.

no calmag needed so far, during veg anyway. (just about to flip to 12/12)

I did have a slight mg def early on, as I struggled to get the required amounts of feed and epsom, under an EC 1 early days and I might have skimped on the epsom to get the feed right.

 

I'll know next time -

Add epsom in the water first to get cal/mg ratio correct 

Then add feed to the correct EC

then adjust ph to 6.0

 

Iv also found when adding epsom solution I get a big spike in th EC even after mixing the hell out of it, but this reduces back after 3 or 4 hours 2400 down to 1800ish

 

 

[ratdog]

i add 1ml of cal mag and enough veg nutes to get me to 1.8 ec, my plants are the best they have looked since i started using coco, don't be shamed into not using calmag if you have soft water

 

i tried upping feed without calmag, i was getting major def, as that was advice i read, that was bullshit

Edited February 14 by ratdog

[doominik]

In theory when using coco specific nutes you dont need additional cal mag but some strains like moro of it-I alway had to add calmag when growing criticals and generally them strains that like high ec

[RUFUS HOUND]

@doominikI think it ultimately depends on your tap waters calcium content.

 

Shogun coco has 4.1% calcium added as well

 

So far I have only added 2ml per litre of epsom solution (250g in 1 Litre of water) to correct my cal:mg ratio to 3:1 and had no issues so so far, 3 weeks into flower. no calcium needed , well non added.

Edited March 9 by RUFUS HOUND