New set up

[Cambium]

Ey up. Finally getting my new set up organised. Been growing in less than ideal conditions for about 8yrs, difficult to get proper air exchange and only one tiny space for germ veg and flower, so no mums 

 

I used to grow in a space that allowed for 1000w of mixed spectrum. 600w HPS and 400w MH. This enabled me to grow high quality drug cannabis, the likes I had never toked. New space is much smaller, but I now have more than one space and proper air exchange isnt an issue.

 

Looking for advice on which new light to buy for a 2m (h) x 1m (w) x 80cm (d) flowering space. The last time I bought any lighting CMH weren't even really a thing for indoor growers, let alone the LED set ups that I see these days. 

 

I am primarily a medicinal user so quality is preferable to quantity. I appreciate that LED have come on leaps and bounds since then, but I would love to hear the experiences from old heads growing long term keepers, that have transitioned from full spectrum HID, over to CMH or LED. Specifically what their thoughts on their end product are. 

 

I know there are dozens of threads covering this, but over the years of rubbish grow space, I have disconnected from the advancements that have occured and  I dont have really the time that I used to have to go through them all and make a sensible decision.

 

2 things I do know are that lamp heat is a positive and the last time I was investigating these things LEDs weren't a serious option if you wanted to realise a full profile. I am airing on the side of 315 cmh because of profile and the heat benefit, but I am here to be convinced otherwise.

 

tia.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Cambium

[KC]

Good to hear you have a new space sorted man, it's no joy having to grow in cramped spaces especially without a good air exchange.

 

I can't comment much on the cmh thing, it was a period when I just fell out of love with growing weed so I kind of missed that boat. My only experience of it is in the veg tent which I run the bluer spectrum phillips daylight bulb. That was a mistake, I should have bought an led really. By the time I bought a spare bulb (they're £100) and the setup I could have got a lovely led which would have needed less wattage and never needed a bulb replacing but too late now. It's still a great light but in hindsight a phillips hpi T in one of my old trusty coil ballasts would have done. Meh! 

 

I've been flowering under led for about 18 months now, I spent a good while choosing which one to go for, I was mainly looking at the spectrum it puts out. I'd always a big fan of MH in flower along side hps so I wanted something with a nice balance of colour spectrum. My light has no Uv or IR (hlg 650r). I've had more than one person comment on the quality of the flowers since I've started using it. A friend of mine has known me since I started growing weed and he says it's in a different ball park. I had considered a Uv bar but I'm really happy with what I get now so I'm going to give it a miss.

As for the heat thing, this might be because I'm not using a bar type led but I get plenty of heat from my board. The driver sits on the top and makes the board act like a big panel heater. It was the first thing that sprung to mind when I started using it as it hangs cheek level and the heat on my face made me wonder what the hell everyone goes on about saying they put out no heat. The diodes are also much closer together than the bar types which might make a difference.

 

I genuinely think it's the best purchase I've ever made   

[BilgePump]

5 minutes ago, KC said:

driver sits on the top

Oh I'm an absolute spanner

I'm going to put my driver in my tent, seems glaringly obvious when I read it but I thought I was being clever having it elsewhere, lulled into a false sense of practicality by the very generous cable length dialaduck provide

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by BilgePump

[KC]

 

[MindSoup]

1 hour ago, KC said:

made me wonder what the hell everyone goes on about saying they put out no heat.

 

If I understand things corectly It's more to do with the lack of IR radiation coming of the diodes, which drops leaf surface temperatures which makes it harder for them to process the light and nutrients which then has the knock on effect of causing deficiencies. Most people seem to "solve" the issue with cal/mag although I think for the most part it's more of an environmental imbalance (too much light on too cold a leaf and warmer ambient temps than LSTs) which can be as simple as just turning your light down a bit. I think that's the main reason people struggle with the transition from HID. 

 

@Cambium I've only ever used LED, but from what I've read from people who have experienced both is that the CMH and LED are more or less on par for potential quality, with some people actually preferring the CMH. Plants seem to express differently under both with CMH producing greasier buds and the LED more sandy/dry. It comes down to personal preference. When space allows I'll be trying out CMH for sure. 

 

I don't really buy into the whole spectrum thing with LEDs, most manufacturers use the same diodes in very similar ratios. Just make sure whatever you buy has top bin diodes and a good level of efficiency. Samsung are not the be all and end all either as some people seem to believe. Also from what I gather there's no real need for added far red as standard spectrum already has plenty of it and uv diodes are also not a great idea because they don't last as long or have the same level of power as other diodes, so really they'd need to be hung lower than the rest of the fixture. If you want some UV (personally wouldn't bother, but that another conversation altogether) then an old school flouro tube is the way to go. 

 

Either grab a bar light that fills as much of your footprint as possible, or even better have a few smaller fixtures that can hang at different heights to accomodate different size plants in the same space. 

 

Migro on YT used to get some flack around here but apparently people have changed their tune. Personally I think his lights are about as good as you can get and his channel is a brilliant place to conveniently learn everything you need to know about lighting and new upcoming tech without trawling through the forums. Check him out if you fancy a bit of swatting up. 

Edited January 4, 2023 by MindSoup

[DreamCatcher]

40 minutes ago, MindSoup said:

"solve" the issue with cal/mag

When in most cases (especially with LED) its the lack of Boron that inhibits Calcium uptake.

[Cambium]

Thanks for all the good info so far folks. 

 

CMH bulb price is a bit wild. Any info on how often they need changing? Also what's the difference between cmh and cmd. If interchangeable, it doesnt matter, if nit, will one become obsolete in a few years a la betamax

 

Sounds like there is LED heat that can be used if inventive with airflow. But am I reading you right in that LED has enough of an influence over nutrient uptake to need to include it as a significant variable. Never needed or used cal mag as that's taken care of in the soil mix.

[KC]

I'd never heard of calmag until a couple of years ago. I've had a couple of different plants show what I believe is Ca deficiency and Calmag made absolutely no difference. I'd have been better trying Epsoms as some people say the Ca needs the Mg to carry it, I don't have a clue myself but I've not got those cuts now so I can't experiment. Most plants seem to do fine under Led anyway. I'd occasionally get it when running under hps come to think of it. 

 

I believe cmh and cmd are the same. Ceramic metal halide and ceramic metal discharge halide (or so i believe).