Sweet Trainwreck Auto - Sweetseeds breeders and folk who've grown her out, can I have some feedback please?

[FlowwolF]

Hi folks - I've taken my first terrible stabs at autos with several STWA seeds, since I had some years of history growing out and utterly loving smoking a couple or so different sub-genotypes of Greenhouse Seeds feminised TW.

 

My first attempts resulted in tiny plants that never when anywhere, but I pulled them and left them on a windowsill to grow out, die and dry. When they had I noticed they'd popped a few miniscule flowers, and behold when I crushed them to dust it stunk of my very favourite TrainWreck!

 

The nostalgia wave was delightfully overwhelming. I ordered more of the same and plodded on with another round, to go outdoors. After a rough start where I discovered my previous issues were bloody root aphids, I got that under control enough to get these plants off, and eventually one at a time, outside. First ones went out at the right time, season-wise, it seems, but got hammered fast by slugs due to lax protection/inexperience and got pulled*, the rest went on and started doing ok, but got budrot as the best weather had passed and left us with rain after rain.

 

Did my best to pull off as little as possible so they could do their best, but in the end I only got about an ounce or so, and of rather loose bud, from the various issues.

 

Happy enough with this though as the main harvest here was always to be information for next year - site security, how the autos work, how they respond in my locale etc. but, there is one thing that I am disappointed by, there is NO classic Trainwreck smell or taste. Nothing throughout veg or flower, not through drying or curing! It just smells vaguely lemony/high notes, and generally beautifully sweet? A buddy suggested it like a lemon haze but I disagree, it didn't have the pepperyness of a haze, nor a true lemon scent, just sweet, tangy high notes, bitter on the tongue (potent), smooth smoking.

 

So please, anyone who worked on this adaptation, or who has grown them out a few times, can you tell me why the first seeds I tried that went to hell from scratch (came straight from SweetSeeds Spain) really hit that Trainwreck vibe square on, but the last several seem almost a different plant altogether - the leaf and bud structure even look different to the results I see in the diaries here, which look very much just like sturdier versions of the GHS TW I used to grow?

 

I'm eager to go again net year with my wits adjusted, eager to get that awesome Trainwreck flavour back in too!

 

Cheers me dears, and be well!

 

*P.s. Only 1 of the 2 I pulled was a STWA, it had 2 slim cholas up top and a tiny lower side branch. I cut the top off it was mature anyway, and stuck the single  lower branch inside under a 50Watt 4000K LED floodlight, and lo it started spitting new pistils out everywhere, and formed another couple of nuggets lower down the twig! This seed sprouted in May FFS and has spent likley a total of 6 weeks inside - I can't believe any of it thinks it should still be making flowers heheheh! Cheers again ',;~}~

[Sweet Seeds-tommy]

Cheers mate!

 

Thanks for your message and complete information. If you also have some photos, please share them here. I know your doubts can't be better cleared out through sharing photos, but it's always nice to be able to see some images, even if the plants are not that beautiful.

 

I'm not sure if I understood well if your first round was always inside (by the window), or if both rounds were pure outdoor growing.

 

Then although it has nothing to do with your experiences with this strain and your doubts, just for information I should also inform that this strain is no longer part of the Sweet Seeds® catalog. I think since 2018 or 2019. You can still find it in some shops (I think at the Sweet Seeds® shop it is still available) but just until it runs out of stock, which means that next year there are chances that you can't even get seeds.

 

Were the seeds you used all from the same packet? Do you still have the packets? If so, can you tell us (or post a photo) about the date and lote number printed in the backside of the packet?

 

Changes in the terpenes might be related to phenotype variations, but it can also be related with different growth parameters. The same strain, from the same packet, grown indoors with artificial light may very well have some slight variations in the terpene contents when compared to that same strain grown outdoors. The medium (soil mix) may also have a direct impact on the aromas and how strong they are perceived.

 

At Sweet Seeds®, the parentals used for the production of seeds from this strain have never changed. The breeding procedures were also the same, so we assume that the variations must be phenotypical or from external parameters. But let us know about what I've asked before and we might have further opinions to share.

 

Kind regards,

 

tommy

 

 

[FlowwolF]

8 hours ago, Sweet Seeds-tommy said:

Cheers mate!

 

Thanks for your message and complete information. If you also have some photos, please share them here. I know your doubts can't be better cleared out through sharing photos, but it's always nice to be able to see some images, even if the plants are not that beautiful.

 

I'm not sure if I understood well if your first round was always inside (by the window), or if both rounds were pure outdoor growing.

 

Then although it has nothing to do with your experiences with this strain and your doubts, just for information I should also inform that this strain is no longer part of the Sweet Seeds® catalog. I think since 2018 or 2019. You can still find it in some shops (I think at the Sweet Seeds® shop it is still available) but just until it runs out of stock, which means that next year there are chances that you can't even get seeds.

 

Were the seeds you used all from the same packet? Do you still have the packets? If so, can you tell us (or post a photo) about the date and lote number printed in the backside of the packet?

 

Changes in the terpenes might be related to phenotype variations, but it can also be related with different growth parameters. The same strain, from the same packet, grown indoors with artificial light may very well have some slight variations in the terpene contents when compared to that same strain grown outdoors. The medium (soil mix) may also have a direct impact on the aromas and how strong they are perceived.

 

At Sweet Seeds®, the parentals used for the production of seeds from this strain have never changed. The breeding procedures were also the same, so we assume that the variations must be phenotypical or from external parameters. But let us know about what I've asked before and we might have further opinions to share.

 

Kind regards,

 

tommy

 

 

 

Thanks very much for the thoughtful and personal reply Tommy, much appreciated!

 

Firstly, I am TERRIBLY sorry to hear you've finished making the STWA! I was so desperate to find a trainwreck I could get good outdoor results from, and this year gave me hopes for next season! I was hoping to maybe create a fast finishing cross with something else, and run those for further selection etc. Maybe I'll get lucky and still be able to find a few beans somewhere!

 

More details regarding the seeds and plants - both packets had identical packaging, I cannot recall the lot numbers. The first seeds I sprouted, that never got taller than 1 inch because of root aphid, but smelled delicious, came from a pack I bought from Sweet Seeds shop Spain, on-line. The 3 I germinated a little later that never smelled like Trainwreck at all, were from a different pack but identical packaging, I bought from a reliable uk vendor (Discreet Seeds).

 

However, the STWA plant I pulled first because it had been taken to little by slugs early on and never recovered, was just in the way, well that one was from the first lot of seed again I ordered from Spain. This is the one I left a lower branch on, that I took inside to mature - this one looks a lot more like Trainwreck to me, certainly smells more like it already (That last nug on a twig just got hung to dry yesterday).

 

So to my mind this suggests the first packet I got were all what I expected, but somehow, the second packet seemed to be just some nice and sweet, but ultimately blank canvas, as if expressing only the other parent and not the Trainwreck, perhaps?

 

I'm familiar with genotype variances, and environment dependent phenotypic expression/ the difference between the two and such, but to me these plants were both totally different 'strains'. Every Trainwreck I ever tasted, from the Arcata cut, through the Greenhouse Seeds line, and one or two others have all carried a central strong theme in taste/aroma/terpene profile to me, no matter where or how they were grown.

 

As for photos, ugh! Well ever since my camera died and I can't afford another, and since no more old Windows File Upload Wizzard, I strugle with photos, and also I don't like taking these kinds of photos on my smart phone as it saves it all fuck-knows-where for all to potentially see, so that's the reason for no photos - I am not too proud to show my failed or poor efforts - my earlier diaries from years ago are full of that before I learner more and finally won me a 'COTC Award' heheheh!

 

So, I suppose I am asking, is it possible a mixup with the seeds has happened, and the ones I got were another line of yours instead?

 

Thanks again for the chat and your insight, much appreciated! ',;~}~

 

 

[Sweet Seeds-tommy]

Hi again mate,

 

Thanks for taking the time to share more information

 

About your question, in this world everything is possible, but a mix up in packaging is really very unlikely to happen. So that you can have an idea, in 16 years only one mix up in packing occurred that we became aware of (in 2013, if I remember well). And we have reasons to believe that any other mix up in packaging would have been noticed. With this, I'd say that there's 99,9% chances that there was no mix up.

 

Maybe one of the parentals expressed more of its traits, as you suggested. Or maybe it was environmentally related. Or a bit of both. Personally and from my experience as a grower, this same situation also happened a few times. Growing a specific strain one year, then growing it again another year, and realising that the aromas were not exactly the same. Sometimes they are even very different. That's why I prefer to grow from clones when the aromas and resin production are very important to me. But of course, selecting a mother to grow from clones is only possible with photoperiod-dependent strains, which is not the case here.

 

Either way if I was you I think I would try to get some more seeds of this strain and give it one final chance.

 

But I also understand that the fact that this strain has been discontinued, kind of takes it out of your plans, because it is an autoflowering strain and you can keep a mother... so even if you give it one more try and it positively impresses you, then it would be a pity if you can't get more seeds in the coming years.

 

That being said, it's a hard decision for you. I understand that pretty well and unfortunately there's not much I can do about it to help you with this.

 

Let us know if you end up giving it another try. Would be interesting to know how it comes out this time.

 

All the best and sweet smokes!

 

tommy

 

 

[FlowwolF]

On 27/08/2021 at 0:15 AM, Sweet Seeds-tommy said:

Hi again mate,

 

Thanks for taking the time to share more information

 

About your question, in this world everything is possible, but a mix up in packaging is really very unlikely to happen. So that you can have an idea, in 16 years only one mix up in packing occurred that we became aware of (in 2013, if I remember well). And we have reasons to believe that any other mix up in packaging would have been noticed. With this, I'd say that there's 99,9% chances that there was no mix up.

 

Maybe one of the parentals expressed more of its traits, as you suggested. Or maybe it was environmentally related. Or a bit of both. Personally and from my experience as a grower, this same situation also happened a few times. Growing a specific strain one year, then growing it again another year, and realising that the aromas were not exactly the same. Sometimes they are even very different. That's why I prefer to grow from clones when the aromas and resin production are very important to me. But of course, selecting a mother to grow from clones is only possible with photoperiod-dependent strains, which is not the case here.

 

Either way if I was you I think I would try to get some more seeds of this strain and give it one final chance.

 

But I also understand that the fact that this strain has been discontinued, kind of takes it out of your plans, because it is an autoflowering strain and you can keep a mother... so even if you give it one more try and it positively impresses you, then it would be a pity if you can't get more seeds in the coming years.

 

That being said, it's a hard decision for you. I understand that pretty well and unfortunately there's not much I can do about it to help you with this.

 

Let us know if you end up giving it another try. Would be interesting to know how it comes out this time.

 

All the best and sweet smokes!

 

tommy

 

 

Thanks again for the detailed reply, much appreciated! And there is no doubt your growing and breeding experience leaves mine in the shade, but my questioning of this environmental/phenotypic line of reasoning, stems from the fact that each of these seeds was started at slightly different times, running indoors for differing periods before going outside, and some being under LED and flouro, some under 600W dual spec. HPS, and another part cropped one being pulled back in under 50Watt 4000K LED to cook the last few lower nugs off.

 

Some has been flash dried, some medium slow short cure, some dried 2 weeks with a week cure etc. and none of it, from any part of any plant has had any terpene signature remotely close to that of TW. When my friend had earlier suggested it was like a haze, I didn't really agree, but when I later tasted a longer cured bud, that's all I could taste - it was like a weakly lemon flavoured, mildly peppery haze, with a general sweet undertone. In every case. But not a hint of any of the core TW signature I had in ~7 years growing 4 varying sub-genotypes from heavily indica dominant, to very sativa dom, then later culled down to 3, then down to 2 sub-genotypes one each end of the spectrum; some grown out in aero, some in compost with mineral ferts, the rest in organic compost and organic nutes, grown at different times of the year, and in different arrangements, also with clones sent out and grown on elsewhere etc. from every single plant, and that scent always started from very early veg. and was unmistakeable

 

So you see, no matter my trust in you and your much greater experience, sincerely, the empirical data I've acquired so far seem to suggest another scenario than such an extreme genotypic swing away from its breeding?

 

Thanks!

 

Oh, and PLEASE! Don't get the impression I am being argumentative in attitude here - I really am not at all! I am fabulously appreciative of you and your teams' experience, but I have an often keen deductive mind and a real desire to get to the bottom of mysteries like this, and who better to talk it over with? ',;~}~

 

On the other matter - can you tell me why you decided to stop with the STWA breeding? A lot of people seemed to be getting great results from and loving that plant?

 

If I had been able to get more of those seeds and obtain a favourable plant or two, my hope was to force some pollen from a lovely smelling 'bagseed' girl I threw out to test an outdoor space, who already started flowering here a week ago, and tickle out a few seeds to play with, see if I couldn't end up with a mother plant 'Fast' trainwreck to play with.

 

I'll have a scout see if I can find any more STWA seeds kicking around, but my year's gardening (and smoking!) budget is already long gone so my chances are slim!

 

Cheers again my dear folk, and worry not for me I have seen plenty of your strains that entice me - could you rec. anything that has a profile (flavour/hit) remotely similar to the TW? I noted some of the chem/dawg lines share some background terpene profile?..

 

',;~}~

 

 

[Sweet Seeds-tommy]

On 28/08/2021 at 11:11 AM, FlowwolF said:

Oh, and PLEASE! Don't get the impression I am being argumentative in attitude here - I really am not at all! I am fabulously appreciative of you and your teams' experience, but I have an often keen deductive mind and a real desire to get to the bottom of mysteries like this, and who better to talk it over with? ',;~}~

 

Sure mate, I know that very well, no worries

 

-

[Sweet Seeds-tommy]

On 28/08/2021 at 11:11 AM, FlowwolF said:

 

On the other matter - can you tell me why you decided to stop with the STWA breeding? A lot of people seemed to be getting great results from and loving that plant?

 

 

As a commercial moderator for Sweet Seeds®, working from home, I usually don't have access to that information. I can suppose it was dropped because every year we add many new strains to our catalog and so sometimes other strains have to be excluded and... also maybe because this commercial name could not be registered ® as a Sweet Seeds® strain due to registration policies. It's very possible that it could have had an impact on that decision. If I get any more information about it I will post it here in this thread.

 

-

[Sweet Seeds-tommy]

On 28/08/2021 at 11:11 AM, FlowwolF said:

 

Cheers again my dear folk, and worry not for me I have seen plenty of your strains that entice me - could you rec. anything that has a profile (flavour/hit) remotely similar to the TW? I noted some of the chem/dawg lines share some background terpene profile?..

 

',;~}~

 

 

Maybe you could try Killer Kush F1 Fast Version®. Or, if you are only looking for autoflowering strains, our Killer Kush Auto or Ice Cool Auto®.

 

All the best and sweet smokes 

 

tommy