Shed advice

[JeffLebowski]

Hi all, 1st proper thread for me… re-arranged things a bit as I went very long with the background info.

 

So TL;DR version… planning 1st grow, in a tent, in a garden shed, in the middle of Ireland, in the middle of winter… first worry is the cold.

I'm thinking autos for my first few grows: 18/24 or even 24/24 might help with the cold; small size; faster harvest

 

Qs:

• Am I worrying too much about the cold? Would the lamp be enough to heat the whole tent (60x60x140) given them temps outside in the winter (2-4 Celsius min temps)? Should I go for HPS in the winter, LED in the summer? What wattage HPS/LED?
• I could spend a bit more money isolating the shed and/or I could place some isolation around the tent itself (as I've read in some other treads, double bubble foil glued to the surface; rockwool on the top)? I've found a few random posts on isolating sheds but would be interested in more advice here
• I have a spare electric oil radiator which draws 1500w (max power in the shed 2500W thou) but would prefer to use that energy for lights. Would mat/tube heaters plus lamp be enough to heat?
• I've read I could extract inside the shed in the winter in order to recycle some of that warmer air. Would that cause humidity or CO2 depletion issue?

 

I've read a few threads on shed grows (@stu914 @Wooden Monkey) but couldnt find direct experience with cold issues. Happy to be pointed in the right direction… cheers

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Longer version:

 

I'm an old time fan of the plant but a newbie grower. I'm based in Ireland which has similar enough conditions and constraints to the UK. I've read and learned a ton of stuff on the site already but have a few (several) questions to make sure I'm making the right choices ahead of starting to spend money.

 

Will start my 1st grow in early Jan 2021 (I may even start earlier if COVID keeps us grounded for Xmas holidays!), for the moment I'm studying different alternatives, getting the space ready and starting to source materials.

 

Budget is not an issue (within reason). I want to give myself a bit of flexibility in terms of expanding the size of the tent at some point so happy to go above the bare minimum requirements. I have 3 nosy housemates (a wife and 2 kids) so I'm trying to do this discretely…

 

I may be wrong (and please correct me) but the starting point for my grow plan is the location/size restrictions:

 

• I'm going to be growing in a grow tent inside my garden shed which is also occupied by 3 bikes, lawnmower and other trinkets
• Preferred tent size initially would 60x60x140cm (possibility of extending to a 90x60x160 in the future)
• My main concern is the cold. I'm in Ireland and winters are  harsh with minimum temperatures of 2-4 degrees C and frequent strong winds (snow and ice are very rare though)
• The shed is quite new but made of cheapish materials. It's positioned in a corner of the garden with a high fence protecting 2 of the walls (north and east facing). I will insulate it a bit with some foam under the roof, tarp on the inside of the walls and a carpet on the floor but I would expect internal shed temperature to be 4-6 degrees above external temperatures so the grow tent will have to generate and retain its own heat to keep plants healthy
• Noise/smell: not a huge concern but I do want a relatively "discrete" solution
• Power: will have 1 extension cord running to the shed powered from the house's external socket which has a max 2500W output

 

Location/size influence on light choice:

• Open to any alternative but my preference would be for LEDs given lower running costs, smaller/lighter footprint
• But if warming the tent is an issue it might be worth getting a "hotter" light like HPS (or combining LED and HPS)instead  of filling the tent with heaters
  • I've seen suggestions on heat mats and tube heaters and I have no issue in adding one or both but given tent size I'd like to avoid putting anything larger for size/power/fire hazard constraints
  • I have a spare electric oil radiator I could put in the shed but it has a 1500W draw so not sure if it would leave with enough juice for tent
• As stated above, I'd want a light that would support a larger tent going forward (volume wise, 50-75% larger) so possibly with a dimmer so I can adjust freely

 

Location/size influence on seed choice:

• I'm thinking autoflowers for my 1st couple of growths for a few reasons:
  • Can run the lights 18/24 or even 24/24 in case I'm having issues with the cold
  • Suitable for the size of the space
  • Quick turnaround for my initial grows… 7-8 weeks to harvest
  • I do plan on trying a photo once temperatures improves and I can run lights 12/12

 

Other preferences so far (happy to debate them):

• 4-inch in-line far + carbon filter (still havent picked a product yet… suggestions?)
• 3 gallon fabric pots
• Canna Coco substrate + perlite

[badbillybob]

well im another shed grower, i have a room and a shed grow, (in Scotland)  in the shed i wanted to use LEDs too, and bought a couple of quantum board 275s from invisible sun. these proved to be  not hot enough to maintain the heat in my 1.2 tent the heat the tent was like 18 degrees- fact. i added a 400 watt HPS, and its got the temps up to 24/25 degrees, which is better. 

dont vent into the shed, it will create moisture, dampness and cause the buds to rot. always vent outside.

run autos definitely, you will spend more money heating a tent for 12 hours than lighting it, if you ran photos.

get a bigger fan, 4 inch will not cut it in  summer, go at least 6 inch and run a fan controller to keep temps in the zone.

insulate the shed as much as you can, this keeps heat in and cold out, and is a worthwhile investment, also helps with fan noise etc

 

hope this helps 

[growinggold]

I'm got a shed test run on go atm, and I am 100% gonna line it with 75or 100mm king span next run, just saving up to do. Not cheap that stuff if any one has good source let me know.

£44 a sheet ouch.

 

I also use a root it heat mate, inkbird, tube heater and oil rad so so quite a lot of heat. I do run LEDs. I opted for 6" rvk fan for a 80x80x160 think I might try run two tents off this though. I was totting up the power spaces needed as I wanna improve space next run and I think I made it to be 7 plugs spaces if I use the one 6" rvk fan filter for 2 tents, still debating if this will be enough. 

 

1. Rvk

2. Light X 2

3. Ink bird - mat and tube heater

4. Oscillating fan X2

5. Oil rad

 

 

I've got photos in there atm. Done auto in the my other space and found 24/7 is definitely the best way to go lots on here vouch for that. Mine cooked in 72 days see diary below I sig. Sweet seeds are great all round get some!

 

Also make it safe! Get an armoured cable and do it proper. A mate did mine for couple hund very worth while. 

 

 

This is the shed and space atm , I though I'd be clever and box in the tent, bad idea nightmare to get to. Ripping this downs and gonna line with kingspan soon.

 

 

Hope this helps, if you want any more info let me know. Of

[JeffLebowski]

8 minutes ago, badbillybob said:

well im another shed grower, i have a room and a shed grow, (in Scotland)  in the shed i wanted to use LEDs too, and bought a couple of quantum board 275s from invisible sun. these proved to be  not hot enough to maintain the heat in my 1.2 tent the heat the tent was like 18 degrees- fact. i added a 400 watt HPS, and its got the temps up to 24/25 degrees, which is better. 

dont vent into the shed, it will create moisture, dampness and cause the buds to rot. always vent outside.

run autos definitely, you will spend more money heating a tent for 12 hours than lighting it, if you ran photos.

get a bigger fan, 4 inch will not cut it in  summer, go at least 6 inch and run a fan controller to keep temps in the zone.

insulate the shed as much as you can, this keeps heat in and cold out, and is a worthwhile investment, also helps with fan noise etc

 

hope this helps 

Thanks for the advice, very precious indeed as in Scotland I'm sure you'll be having similar winter temps as Ireland.

I'm leaning towards a HPS lamp for the reasons you mentioned... would 400w be enough for my 60x60x140cm tent? Is the spectrum fine for autos through veg and flowering?

I've read a few other threads where people were building a "box" around their tent made from kingspan (or similar) insulated boards. I could even build it big enough to put my radiator inside the box, next to the tent. That might be an idea and more practical than insulating the shed much more that what i've already done....

 

 

[badbillybob]

if you get a dimmable ballast you can run 250w/400w or 600 watts. i think a 400 might be a little bit much in a 60 x 60. but ive not used that size light in that size tent, so not sure. a 6 inch fan would also be a bit big for 60 x 60

 

. i dunno why but i presumed you were using a 1.2 by 1.2 tent

[JeffLebowski]

On 10/15/2020 at 4:39 PM, growinggold said:

I'm got a shed test run on go atm, and I am 100% gonna line it with 75or 100mm king span next run, just saving up to do. Not cheap that stuff if any one has good source let me know.

£44 a sheet ouch.

 

I also use a root it heat mate, inkbird, tube heater and oil rad so so quite a lot of heat. I do run LEDs. I opted for 6" rvk fan for a 80x80x160 think I might try run two tents off this though. I was totting up the power spaces needed as I wanna improve space next run and I think I made it to be 7 plugs spaces if I use the one 6" rvk fan filter for 2 tents, still debating if this will be enough. 

 

1. Rvk

2. Light X 2

3. Ink bird - mat and tube heater

4. Oscillating fan X2

5. Oil rad

 

 

I've got photos in there atm. Done auto in the my other space and found 24/7 is definitely the best way to go lots on here vouch for that. Mine cooked in 72 days see diary below I sig. Sweet seeds are great all round get some!

 

Also make it safe! Get an armoured cable and do it proper. A mate did mine for couple hund very worth while. 

 

 

This is the shed and space atm , I though I'd be clever and box in the tent, bad idea nightmare to get to. Ripping this downs and gonna line with kingspan soon.

 

 

Hope this helps, if you want any more info let me know. Of

Thanks for the reply @growinggold it definitely helps to be able to visualize what i'm getting myself into!

my shed - and thus my grow space - are smaller but i have some similar ideas.

I've found some 60mm kingspan panels on a classified ads website here in ireland. I would've gone thicker but can get these for 50% off so will look to leave some space between the grow tent and the panels and will fill that with more isolating materials (rockwool, foam pads or even a duvet cover...whatever i can find second hand).

After reading your feedback (plus a few others) I've also decided to leave enough space to fit my oil radiator inside the panel structure (30cm should be enough) and then attach that to the temperature controller that also powers the fan. heated mat under the pots is also a must.

If i do build this "kingspan panel box" and fit everything in there, do you think I would still have to insulate the shed itself?

Are you planning to put anything on the floors and ceilings?

would be interesting to get what min and max temps you're getting in the shed compared to outside. I'm doing this at the moment given that outside temps have already reached 7-8 degrees here in the last few days.

cheers

 

[stu914]

On 10/15/2020 at 4:39 PM, growinggold said:

Not cheap that stuff if any one has good source let me know.

 

I used 50mm celotex from "buildingsuppliesonline" ...around £20 per 8 x 4 board...works fine...

[growinggold]

Thanks at @stu914 I will look at that. Do you think only 50mm is needed?

[stu914]

1 hour ago, growinggold said:

Thanks at @stu914 I will look at that. Do you think only 50mm is needed?

 

Have a look at my 'shed build' thread and you'll see what I've done...works a treat mate, keeps temps and humidity where I want it and is soundproof.

If you start with 50mm and find it's not enough then you can always double it up later...I reckon it will do fine though...

Good luck bud, tag me if I can help....

[growinggold]

@JeffLebowski These are my shed temps for the past week. I am based in England and outside max and mins have circa 12c and 6c. 

This was recorded using a SensorPush Wireless Thermometer/Hygrometer of the river site. really easy and quick to use.

Great bit if kit and i actually prefer it to my more expensive unibot wifi logger. 

 

 

Insulation box is going to be the way forward i feel when the temps hit 0 outside.

So far so good but im hoping to get the grow finished in the next month or so. 

 

[LA LUNA]

Hi, ive grown in my shed for 7 years, i insulated my room with 75mm rockwool in the cavity and 120mm celotex board inside, you could have 7 foot of insulation the biggest problem you will have is inlet temps in the winter, i use a thermostatic fan speed controller to help, lights on 24 with autos will help and as said venting inside the shed will cause condensation, hot extracted air will condense on the cold surfaces and go moldy, only vent outside.

Despite that its do-able and if its a shed you need to grow in get it done !

[LA LUNA]

On 15/10/2020 at 4:39 PM, growinggold said:

Not cheap that stuff if any one has good source let me know.

I pinched mine off a building site.

[growinggold]

@LA LUNALUNA thanks for sharing bud. I will look to use 100mm celotex I think them. I'll vent straight outside. I have a passive intake vent on my shed wall I will make sure I insulate around that so the come into the shed and the insulation boards are only around the tents and the intake is outside the insulated area. Also do you think a 6"rvk would be okay to run two 80x80x160 tents? 

[LA LUNA]

Just now, growinggold said:

@LA LUNALUNA thanks for sharing bud. I will look to use 100mm celotex I think them. I'll vent straight outside. I have a passive intake vent on my shed wall I will make sure I insulate around that so the come into the shed and the insulation boards are only around the tents and the intake is outside the insulated area. Also do you think a 6"rvk would be okay to run two 80x80x160 tents? 

You might be fine with the 50mm mate id try that first, i only used 120mm because i seen it stacked up on a building site, dont forget the thicker the insulation the bulkyer the structure.

 

Insulation is subject to the law of diminishing returns so 200mm wont be twice as effective as 100mm maybe only 10% more and so on, so try 50mm first if you need more add another 50mm, its the cold inlet air that will bring your temps down in the winter !

 

An added bonus from insulating with boards is the sound proofing if thats an issue.

 

As for the extraction it depends on the lighting.

[JeffLebowski]

Hi all,

I'm exhuming this nearly defunct thread... started in Oct 2020 with some serious intentions to finish the shed by year end and get growing in early 2021 and here I am 12+ months later still not having planted a single seed. in some ways I'm glad, got to do more research, followed other grow diaries and feel a bit more prepared. Feel I should tag @growinggold as his '6 ladies in lockdown' (might have been 5) was a true inspiration. Learned a lot from that... i know my limits, I'll never be that meticulous but at least I have a benchmark now!

I'm nearly finished with my space within my shed so as soon as i get fans and heating hooked up, do a test for temperatures I'll get started. hopefully in the next week or so as I have to travel so easter so need to get going on my white widow autos...

 

I'll upload more pictures of my space shortly but wanted to ask a quick question before I fix that pipe into place and put sealant around it.

 

QUICK QUESTION:

 

Is it fine to leave my exhaust fan directly connected to the pipe that goes outside? That pipe is no more than 10-15cm long on the other side of that polystyrene sheet, finished flush with the side of the shed.

There is a tad of vibration that amplifies the sound but very minor, I could live with that. I've tried at speeds up to 4 (out of 8 I think) which should be more than enough for my 60x60x140 tent and the noise is OK... I have bought acoustic ducting but the space between the fan and the wall is so short I didnt know if it was really worth cutting such a short piece (with my DIY skills more butchering than cutting).

I will use the acoustic ducting to connect the fan to the tent, it'll be short as well, just basically an 'L' shape about 30-40cm long. so if there are good reasons to put it on the other side as well it wouldnt cost me much to do it.

thanks in advance... will post some pics shortly.