HELP, please. Clones fading fast

[screrg]

I've been looking forward to trying budelaire's cloning guide since seeing it and having had a general nightmare cloning in the past. I've followed the guide spot on but used rockwool as I have no jiffy's and they have worked in the past but often by the time the little uns root they are looking worse for wear but are usable and recover well when potted. Soaked the rockwools in ph5.5 warm water for a few hours with some rooting solution at 1ml per litre, shook some of the water out of them, put them in the tray under the light to heat up a bit, clonex hormone gel in the hole, took the cuttings, trimmed lower leaves, 45 degree angle cut, dipped straight in the gel then in the rockwool and into the tray in the little pots and wrapped up tight with clingfilm. I have a humidity/temp reader in there with them and can see it through the clingfilm to check what the conditions are without disturbing them at all.

 

Thursday night took 6 clones as mentioned above and let them sit. I'm using a 15W LED from Ikea designed specifically for cuttings/v.young plants that I've used before. In the past I used a propagator and lay the light on the top of it and they were fine. Now the light is 12" above the top of the tubs. Also in the past never pHed the water or heated it up or got the rockwools warm before putting the clones in or used mild feed to soak the rockwools in and, although they struggled as I was lifting the lid and tinkering far too much, they gave some results (around 50% took). I went to have a look at how they were doing the morning after and they just looked fucked. Completely limp and dying. Humidity was 99% so thought it was too high for them and pierced the lid a few times to bring it down to 95%<. That night took the film off and squeezed some of the water out of the rockwools as I thought it was too wet for them and put them back in (not ideal but thought they'd be fine) and then repeated all the above steps but squeezed more of the water out of the rockwool this time and thought the new 6 would take spot on. Looked this morning and they were as equally fucked as the other ones. This is happening very quickly after they go in the tent, never had this happen before. They have loooked poor after a week or 2 in the past but mpstly have been alive and rooted. Humidity in both tubs now is 87%-90% and temp 23-25C and they look equally sick.

 

I have just raised the lights to 24" above but I've never needed it this high before. They're very weak but usually excellent for the plants but I'm at me whit's end as to where the issue is here.

 

If anyone has any idea it'd be massively appreciated as I've got the hang of pretty much everything else but this cloning business is seriously doing my nut in (hence the essay lol), especially as I though this way would be spot on and has clearly worked for loads of other ppl. Please help!

[Lancaster8]

Hello mate,  I understand your frustration. You have done more than enough.  However, sometimes less is more.  You've been anxious and have been over-trying in my view.

 

It is always difficult to be able to respond exactly to your specific circumstances as we all do things differently using different products etc. I personally use Rockwool if I am cloning. I don't use jiffy's as they haven't worked well for me in the past. (I am not criticising them in any way, but we all have our own preferences.)

 

You have really gone to town by even ph adjusting your Rockwool cubes.  This is probably positive, but I don't even always bother with this.  Your clones I would imagine, are simply rotting.  If the humidity is too high, the tops will rot, and if moisture attacks the stem, then everything will rot.  I am going to tell you what I do personally, and then you might be able to apply some of my processes to your own set up and procedures.....

 

I don't use a propagator.  I have a "Heath Robinson" arrangement.  I have a tiny tent just for cloning.  In the bottom, is a very small glass fish tank with water and a fish tank heater/thermostat in it.  At the top of the tank, I have made a wire mesh cradle which then supports a glass tray that sits in the top.  There is gentle steady warmth rising from the fish tank heater below, and very slight humidity - but not very much. Then, I will take a clone - just as you have done, and the base of it is scraped and split a little - then dipped into clonex.  However, I then do something else.....

 

Where the clone enters the Rockwool, there is a gap around the base of the stem. This can allow rot to start up, so I use an additional cloning GEL around the base of the stem to block off this hole, and prevent rotting. It also adds to the rooting potential.  I then put the clone into a plastic bag about postcard size or a little less. The clone is put into this bag at a diagonal, and the top is closed with a paper clip *with a corner exposed to the air*. (Trimmed off)  - About half an inch.  The cube inside is wet from the start, but no other moisture is added.  The plastic bag is stood in the glass tray in the top of the fish tank, under gentle CFL light.  ( It has to be gentle.)  

 

Then, the cube will gradually dry out in the bag, and create its own humidity within that small space. If the clone is going to take, the roots will appear from the cube, and can easily be seen through the plastic.  Usually they seem to take using this method, but occasionally they don't. (No extra moisture is added beyond what was there at the start.)  Plants always have their own minds to some degree.  Once I can see some protruding roots, then they get potted into soil and the lighting is stepped up. 

 

I actually wonder if your 15W LED light might be too weak?  15W for an LED is not very much.  I think you might be better using a different lighting source.  Perhaps just an ordinary household CFL bulb. The clones don't need to be roasted, but they also need enough light to be able to gain some benefit. Difficult to advise without being there.

 

Principles are always pretty much the same, although we all do things a little differently.  I hope sharing how I do things with you can be of some use.

 

Try not to stress too much mate!  You'll get there in the end! 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Lancaster8

[screrg]

Hi Lancaster,

 

You're right about finding what works for each person. I was panicking last night but have managed to get 9 alive looking ones out and have got them in the prop now and should be okay hopefully. They look happy (a lot happier than the 12 that pretty much instantly keeled over ) and conditions look decent. I've definitely tinkered too much in the past so gonna leave alone as much as possible and just keep an eye on them and, hopefully, let them do their thing. One thing I did this time that I hadn't in the past was cut the 45degree angle cut with snippers. They are new and really sharp and I didn't have any scalpels or blades left. Maybe they crushed the bottoms and knacked them? still dont think that would've caused them to be so done in so quick but will go back to blades from now on.

 

Cheers for the info and I'll be trying a few tips next time. Just gonna keep practicing like hell and get it right eventually . . . . .

[BilgePump]

Reading this i couldn't help but think that's a lot of effort just to root cuttings , perhaps maybe even over complicating it but as mentioned numerous times on the site its horses for courses and each to their own ... 

in recent years i've moved away from rooting hormones and sponges/jiffy7's etc (although if ever i was going to grow in a soil-less media i'd go back to root-its over riots) , these days i take my clones , trim them up a bit so they aren't too leafy and leave them in a jar of water overnight (usually in the loo tbh) then instead of a commercially available rooting hormone i dip my cuttings in aloe vera  and then place them 4 at a time into 7cm square pots  of light mix or similar (one cutting in each corner right up against the side of the pot)  these then go into a bog standard prop under a T5, misted with tap water every other day or so.

i reckon i get a 95% success rate doing this and most clones root in around a week.

Hope you get this cracked buddy , can be a right nightmare i know .

[Lancaster8]

7 hours ago, screrg said:

Maybe they crushed the bottoms and knacked them?

 

I doubt it very much. Make sure you do your diagonal cut on or around a node, and do some scraping and/or splitting at the cut to ensure plenty of potential rooting surfaces. It doesn't have to be perfect - it's a plant!   

 

Good luck mate!

[Revive]

On 02/05/2020 at 8:37 PM, screrg said:

I've been looking forward to trying budelaire's cloning guide since seeing it and having had a general nightmare cloning in the past. I've followed the guide spot on but used rockwool as I have no jiffy's and they have worked in the past but often by the time the little uns root they are looking worse for wear but are usable and recover well when potted. Soaked the rockwools in ph5.5 warm water for a few hours with some rooting solution at 1ml per litre, shook some of the water out of them, put them in the tray under the light to heat up a bit, clonex hormone gel in the hole, took the cuttings, trimmed lower leaves, 45 degree angle cut, dipped straight in the gel then in the rockwool and into the tray in the little pots and wrapped up tight with clingfilm. I have a humidity/temp reader in there with them and can see it through the clingfilm to check what the conditions are without disturbing them at all.

 

Thursday night took 6 clones as mentioned above and let them sit. I'm using a 15W LED from Ikea designed specifically for cuttings/v.young plants that I've used before. In the past I used a propagator and lay the light on the top of it and they were fine. Now the light is 12" above the top of the tubs. Also in the past never pHed the water or heated it up or got the rockwools warm before putting the clones in or used mild feed to soak the rockwools in and, although they struggled as I was lifting the lid and tinkering far too much, they gave some results (around 50% took). I went to have a look at how they were doing the morning after and they just looked fucked. Completely limp and dying. Humidity was 99% so thought it was too high for them and pierced the lid a few times to bring it down to 95%<. That night took the film off and squeezed some of the water out of the rockwools as I thought it was too wet for them and put them back in (not ideal but thought they'd be fine) and then repeated all the above steps but squeezed more of the water out of the rockwool this time and thought the new 6 would take spot on. Looked this morning and they were as equally fucked as the other ones. This is happening very quickly after they go in the tent, never had this happen before. They have loooked poor after a week or 2 in the past but mpstly have been alive and rooted. Humidity in both tubs now is 87%-90% and temp 23-25C and they look equally sick.

 

I have just raised the lights to 24" above but I've never needed it this high before. They're very weak but usually excellent for the plants but I'm at me whit's end as to where the issue is here.

 

If anyone has any idea it'd be massively appreciated as I've got the hang of pretty much everything else but this cloning business is seriously doing my nut in (hence the essay lol), especially as I though this way would be spot on and has clearly worked for loads of other ppl. Please help!

As said everyone's does it different..I used to used Rockwell with mixed results, always used a propagator unheated..make sure everything is extra clean when making your 45 cuts quite important I found... a friend introduced me to root riot cubes, when I switched to those bang everything changed success was a consistent 95% in the end almost foolproof dude. I use clonex too and in 7 to 10 days roots were flying out all over the gaff.. how I used to do it was sharp sterile scalpel, make cut straight into clonex straight in cube, the least time that cut is exposed to air the better so I'd do it 1 by 1 this way.. root roots came in a tray so I'd fill the tray into the prop lid on vent open under T5 light small double it was... and mist with rain water or ph balanced when needed, cubes come moist so just kept on top of that over the course of time... that was my method in the end dude..it can be tricky but once you find what suits you just stick to it...ran a strain indoors for about 10 yrs more or less, clone only  never failed me... good luck

[BilgePump]

Anyone used Clonex Mist?  i've used it but im not convinced it made a dramatic difference (was given a litre , dont think i'd part with money for it but the black spray bottle looks nice)

[Revive]

37 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

Anyone used Clonex Mist?  i've used it but im not convinced it made a dramatic difference (was given a litre , dont think i'd part with money for it but the black spray bottle looks nice)

Never used that stuff, in fact didn't even no about it.. years ago when clones were needed in big numbers I used a big aeroponics system. I used to add the normal clonex to the water that misted the cuttings.. that worked quite well used to get insane roots hanging out the bottom of the baskets like 18in or so in length . it was a bit slow though and quite a few would turn to mush. . So went back to the old root riot cubes.. those are amazing for clones dude..

Edited May 6, 2020 by Revive

[BilgePump]

@Revive i prefer root-its to riots , i find they are slightly more open structured and personally , in my environment they preformed better. 

both shit on jiffy 7's though , fact 

[Chall89]

id try using root riot and clonex pal works all the time for me