chip Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 Hi all In the past i used to add Phosphate to my hydro solution (then optimum bloom) to keep the plants shorter and reduce the internode gap producing fatter and more solid single cola's. If i didnt do this they would stretch to 3 or 4 foot tall. With added P I could keep them to a more managable 12 - 18'' tall which was what i wanted in my intensive SOG grow. I dont want to go through the hassle of creating my own P additive like i used to so i was wondering if anyone else had tried adding Ionic boost or PK 13/14 early on in the flowering of their plants. If so what effect did it have? I am going to do it anyway as my Generals Daughter are stretching for the stars. I'll keep you posted as to what happens as we'll be able to compare height, growth etc with another grower. Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 I am going to do it anyway as my Generals Daughter are stretching for the stars. hehe...the one you're growing....#9...is what I would class a mid-stretcher from the GD's.... If you can find anyway of really effectively reducing stretch I'd be very happy, as my favourite smoke....#8...stretches far too much to be practical....I got a #8 now which started at about 5-6"..shes now over 4.5 feet tall....I really want to keep this pheno going for the quality of the smoke, but ATM just can't.... dwarfism....is this extreme enough for #8?.... BTW, I think, if I remember correctly....(not very bloody likely ).....#9 stops stretching at about 20days 12/12, how long's it been now...? Much less stretch evident in #1, and #6...... Mono.....x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chip Posted June 24, 2002 Author Share Posted June 24, 2002 BTW, I think, if I remember correctly....(not very bloody likely ).....#9 stops stretching at about 20days 12/12, how long's it been now...? only 7 days!!! I need them to stop stretching now!! They were all flowered at about 4''. How tall do you reckon they will get if i cant slow them down a little? Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 two feet maybe.... Mono...x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chip Posted June 26, 2002 Author Share Posted June 26, 2002 Just adding a post to keep this thread running. There's got to be someone out there that has experimented with adding extra P to their plants. Oldtimer, Oldpink maybe. chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 You have had good results with this added P before though chip haven't you? I've seen the pics... :0 short and stocky bit of an understatement....... Not working on the GD...? Hmmmmm Pretty sure you'd need to drastically reduce your regular feed and gor for a coupla feeds of JUST p to have good effect...GD likes nitrogen though....bad yellowing without reasonable Nelement to feed. oldtimer, OldPink we need you..... Mono....x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chip Posted June 26, 2002 Author Share Posted June 26, 2002 The shots i showed you were of plants that had been grown on bloom solution and just flowered small, no added P. It was with NL5xHaze that i had success. I used to buy Phosphate from the gardening centre, put a load in a saucepan and boil it up. I'd let it settle and cool, drain off the liquid, let it stand and then add it to my bloom solution. growing hydro, i would measure the solution first. EC of 1.8, and then increase this to 2.4 with P. I think the solution was 2/2/7, so i think the added P changed it to something like 2/8/7. Not sure that is right, but the plants went from stretching to 3 - 4' tall, to 12 - 14'' little monsters. They yielded pretty much the same, but instead of 12, I'd get maybe up to 70 plants on the go. I was after a more hassle free way of doing this. I have begun adding ionic boost now as i believe that it is a P/K additive to help finish flowering. I was hoping someone else had done something similar and would be able to share their experiences with me. As with the GD, the addition of boost seems to have slowed the stretch, but that may also be a result of its time in flowering, 9 - 10 days. I know there's plenty of really experienced growers here, have you added ionic boost or P/K 13/14 to shorten plants? Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chip Posted July 3, 2002 Author Share Posted July 3, 2002 Hi all, a quick update on what I've been doing. After seeing the generals daughter stretch like crazy in the first week of flowering i put up this original post. It doesnt seem like many, in fact no one had tried doing anything like this before. So i bit the bullet and on about day 8 of flowering, with the plants about 18- 22'' tall i started adding boost at the recomended 1ml per litre. With the new growth there was a definite decrease in node gap, but i wanted the gap even shorter. So I changed the solution to 3ml per litre bloom, and 4ml per litre boost. Now, it may be that they were at the point in flowering where they really start to sort out bud sites, but the gap is much shorter without any discernible damage to the plants. Now that i have seen that the plants are ok with this mix of solution, the next batch of GD that go in, which have just shown their first roots 5 days after the original clones had been taken, will be fed on something similar. I think one of the main causes of the original stretch was the fact that the rockwool cubes i transplanted the clones into had been pre soaked in grow solution, ec 1.4, pH 5.5. They were flowered 1 week after they had been transplanted and 2 weeks after the cuttings were originally taken. This time I will transplant them into cubes that have been soaked in a bloom solution and flowered as soon as they begin to show roots through these largere cubes. They will go straight onto a solution that contains boost and i will slowly change it so that boost makes up the majority of the solution (as above). Some pics of the grow have been taken, and i plan to take some more of the next batch for comparison. Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 Chip you dropped me a pm and I forgot, been a little busy, sorry about that. What you are asking is sort of outside my experience as I grow as naturally as I can and don’t believe in forcing plants with unbalanced nutrient mixes. I know for sure I can’t stand smoking bud grown with elevated phosphorus, it turns me into an erupt-o-matic one toke gives me a sore chest for several days. Whatever its your choice and I know a lot of the Aus growers use limited N and elevated P to control sat hybrids inside with some considerable success. I don’t think it would control a pure equatorial sat as growth and flowering tends to be set by other things than just light hours and nutrients. I look forward to seeing your how your experiments work out! By doing what you are doing is how we learn new things. I do worry about the use of a lot of phosphorus though. The American government set very strict rules on the level of phosphorous that can be used when growing tobacco and randomly test for residual levels in finished crops and now farmers tend to follow the guidelines closely as the total crop gets condemned if over the guide limits. They have known for years that phosphorus above macro amounts in tobacco increases the carcinogenic effect exponentially the more there is in the finished product. Puff growers use huge amounts of P compared with most other crops grown because it gives better bud quantity and form. But more to the point that bud is smoked. No one seems to think of the possible consequences of this. In my own small way I help people with cancer and try and get them through kemo and radiation therapy. I have seen the results of these treatments, some die, some give up because they can’t bear it any more, some survive. Whatever the treatments are barbaric and the disease is horrendous and personally I don’t want vaporised particles of this metal going into my lungs. As a final note there used to be a hormone growth modifier called sensi spray that was used to control node spacing a few years back. I don’t know if it is still around, it was said to work really well but I have never tried it personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer1 Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 Chip that last post was me for some uknown reasn this new board seems to randomly log me out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldDave Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 High All Just finished reading 'supercharging your garden' and they reckon that running negative diff reduces internode length - I've just got a new climate controller as part of my grow room upgrade. Next crop goes in in 3 weeks and I thought I might give this a try - I'll let you know but it will be a bit late ! Peace David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chip Posted July 4, 2002 Author Share Posted July 4, 2002 Hi dave and Oldtimer Thanks for your replies. OT1, very interesting and most definitely food for thought. I do not wish to make my plants any more carcinogenic than they already are when smoked. If i return to bloom solution after 4 weeks, after they have stopped stretching, and then flush them 2 weeks before they finish, will this remove the 'excess phospate' from the plant? When i did this first time round i didnt know any different, but now you have shown me the possible consequences of increasing the phospate levels, i feel that i have a duty to myself and others, to reduce the carcinogenic properties of the buds. Thanks again Oldtimer Dave Just finished reading 'supercharging your garden' and they reckon that running negative diff reduces internode length What is negative diff dave? Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldDave Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Chip, sorry for the delay - diif is the difference between lights on/off temperature, day/night in most cases. Usually the room is hotter with the lights on, so taking the 'off' temp from the 'on' temp gives a positive number, referred to as the diff. If your room is at 85F with the lights on and drops to 65F with them off you're running a diff of +20. What they suggest in the book is trying to cool the room more during the day (I'll turn the fan speed up) and adding a small amount of heat during the night. As far as I can tell you don't need a huge margin, 2-3 degrees will do, as long as it's hotter all night than it is all day. Peace David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chip Posted July 11, 2002 Author Share Posted July 11, 2002 Cheers Dave So that gives more to the argument that its best to have your lights on during the night and off during the day. Damn, due to the proximity of my grow room to my bed, i have to run it during the day or the constant sound of hoovers would keep me and the missus awake. Stuff to bare in mind for the future though, cheers dave Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBenn Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 Chip I read that as being the plants night...ie. having it warmer during lights off than lights on - correct me if I'm wrong dave. Can you give me some more details on that book dave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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