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[v12xjs]

So this is the Micro-Growing and Experimental forum?
Well I've already ticked the box for Micro-Growing
Maybe it's time for an Experimental grow...

What with cheap LED's becoming available I've been wondering if I could use them to introduce some Circadian Rhythms into my cab.
Now I'm still only growing in my old pc case and I don't have room for anything too funky, so I'm just going to go with 3 x 20w LED floodlights. The way I'm planning it I think I will be able to cover 5 rhythms:

Basic light and dark periods.

Phototropism (when the plant follows the sun across the sky and then turns to face East in readiness for the coming dawn).

Red light peak at dawn & dusk.

Increase in temps up to noon and then a decline in temps towards dusk.

Changing CCT through the day to ensure 5000K at noon with CCT gradually increasing / reducing before and after noon.

I'm wondering if anyone else has ever tried using a Circadian rhythm in their grow and if they found any benefits to doing it.
I'm also interested if anyone has good scientific knowledge about using moon phases with planting schedules.

 

I still have to build the case and I think I should to do a straight 12/12 with these lights first to set a baseline, so don't expect no bud pics for a while yet.

Edited July 16, 2017 by v12xjs
typo

[v12xjs]

Maybe not everyone knows exactly what a circadian rhythm is, so here's a simple explanation.

 

Circadian means daily and it denotes a behaviour that triggers something in a plant over a 24 hour period.
The one we all use is 18/6 or 12/12 lighting. Both of these take effect over a 24 hour period and tell the plant to either flower or grow. They are a signal to plants that cannot be ignored. But this is the only signal we activate in our plants and perhaps if we activated more of them then we could achieve more with what we have.

 

Imagine a modern car. It has sensors in the engine, fuel and exhaust systems. When any of these sensors gives a dope reading, the car runs badly. With 2 or more sensors down, the car either goes into limp-home mode or won't even start. With 3 or more sensors it would run like a bag of spanners and I wonder is this what we are doing with our plants when we grow indoors?

What I am looking at would effectively fix multiple malfunctioning sensors in my plants. At least that is my reasoning.

[Bucketboi]

Hi there,

I have a question in regards to the phototropism you mentioned above. How would you mimick this with a led. I should mention that you have scrambled my mind so I am off to consult the google oracle. Are you talking about a mechanical solution or a colour mimic/pattern.

Its all interesting stuff so will be subbing in

[v12xjs]

Thanks for dropping by Bucketboi, I was getting a bit lonely here

 

My plan is very simple, I have 3 LED floodlights each connected to a seperate timer. The centre light is 3000K and is set to 12/12. This will give me my 1 hour of dawn and dusk red light.
The 2 outer lights are both 6000K and 1 will come on 1 hour after the 3000K for 8 hours. The 2nd will come on around 2 hours after that and run for a further 8 hours, leaving me with just the 3000K for the last hour.

 

That will give me 2 hours of the left light, 6 hours with both and then 2 hours with just the right light. It's a bit basic I grant you, but it's a step closer to nature than what I'm doing at present and I'd just like to see if it makes any difference.

[v12xjs]

Finally ready to take a closer look at this.

 

The easiest thing to look at, and probably the biggest issue with my current cab, is the way that I signal the time of day to the plants.
Well that and the fact it's a bloody pc case!

 

If I put a sun dial into there it would constantly show midday because the light is always overhead and shining at full power.
Obviously this will mess up any circadian rhythm the plants rely on.

 

One very important thing they do rely on is the ratio of Pr / Pfr or phytochrome.
The r and fr stand for red and far red, and during the day plants use this info to determine if their light is being blocked. If it is then they are triggered to stretch in order to get around the blockage. At twilight however the same information is used to tell the plant to prepare for sleep, so it is very important for the plant to know if it is day or evening. Otherwise they may try to grow at night and sleep in the day.
This phytochrome pigment also triggers flowering, so it's pretty key to growing buds.

 

Here then is my stab at a circadian PC grow case, in full David Attenborough timelapse no less!

 

[v12xjs]

So that's dawn (1 light, cct=6000k)
Mid morning (2 lights, cct=6000k)
Midday (3 lights, cct=5000k)
Mid afternoon (2 lights, cct=4500k )
Dusk (1 light, cct=3000k)
Can't set your watch by it, but at least you'd know wether to eat breakfast, lunch or dinner.
That then covers light moving in an arc across the sky (ish), light intensity increasing to a peak and then diminishing to darkness, and light colour temp changing from mostly blue in the morning to mostly red in the evening.

 

Next thing to cover, which is easy enough to do, is to look at temperature.
I currently grow at night to take advantage of cooler intake temps, but again this just screws plant timing right over.
Temps should rise and fall in accordance with light intensity (obviously) and again this is a biggy in the plant world.
My grow starts at 10pm and effectively gets cooler as the outside temps drop, getting warmer again at the end of lights on at 10am. So I'm effectively telling my plants that the sun is cold and the moon is hot!
Just moving my light on / off times to 6am and 6pm would bring temps in line with my lights, so that's what I'll be doing.

[Hairy ape]

I understood from the off mate, mimic mother nature to the finest. 

My hat is off to you sir. I'll park my penny farthing n seek a tree stump to nestle. 

[stu914]

37 minutes ago, Hairy ape said:

I'll park my penny farthing n seek a tree stump to nestle. 

 

I think you could be there for a while bud...

[Guest]

Absolutely love this. Subbed. 

Respect. 

 

[Mackie]

Awesome idea love your thinking. Id consider maybe just trying a normal grow first so you have a control for the space. I've no experience on what your thinking but am subbed up so will slap the kettle on. Good luck

[v12xjs]

Finally got a female out of my Ortega beans then.
Got some useful info from the dry runs that turned out male as well, so overall I'm really pleased with how it's turning out.

Here's the girl an hour after lights on, day 35 from showing sex:

 

 

I have the 3000k in the middle now with a 6000k on either side, still 20w each.
The centre red light is on all day, with the 1st blue coming on after 30 mins and the other one kicking in 2 hours later, reversing the cycle towards lights off.
That gives a mean value of 50w of light over the day.

 

Overall I'd say I couldn't get near this with 3 x 20w cmh lamps, and comparing the bud structure of this plant with the pristine pics of Ortega on the MNS website I'd be thinking it's those guys that need to raise their game.

 

 

So the next plant has already gone in.

[Hairy ape]

On 05/09/2019 at 9:27 PM, stu914 said:

 

I think you could be there for a while bud...

I'm good for a while, I've a goats cheese watercress sarnie. I can understand why some hate trimming.