600w metal halide

[oldtimer1]

know what the lumen out put is?

I have just been given a 600w venture MH to test and I would really like some stats on it!  

I have to say the dam thing looks pretty bright  :wow:

[JollyGoodSmoke]

high old timer

i aint got a clue about lumens but i've just changed my 400w to a 600w cos reading the forums the more light output the better ur plants will be, sorry i can't be of much help but this is my first gro and i'll definately be sticking to 600w from now on.

all the best with ur gro  jgs

[Oldpink]

I can't find a 600 MH listed anywhere this is as good as i got

most 600w sodium's claim 85 - 92,000lumen

Brand: EYE Hortilux

Watts: 600

Life Hours: 16,000+

Base: Mogul

Intial Lumens: 87,000

Mean Lumens: 76,000

Color Temp. (CCT or K): 2,100 K

Color Rendering Index (CRI): 25

a halide put's out about 25% les lumen than a sodium so

a comparison would be about 60 - 70,000+ lumen for a halide

as close as i can get it

hope this help's

OP

[KC]

i hear MH bulbs needs replacing after a year, did they mention if the bulb is new or not? it might be worth getting a new one, supposedly the plants can notice the difference even if you can't

Have fun   .....and get ure shades on  :cool:

[Guest bc pete]

i believe mh lamps lose a third of their lumen output after a 1000  hours!

so for full output 365 days a year . you are looking at three bulbs

thats for optimum :cool:

:peace:  bc pete

[Oldpink]

lamp life is normally 16000 hr's here's bargain basement's life

cycle list

Osram 1000w bulb Maintaining maximum Lux for upto two years (16,000 hours)

Osram 400w Son T Maintaining maximum Lux for upto two years (16,000 hours)

Philips 250 bulb Maintaining maximum Lux for upto two years (16,000 hours)

Sylvania Grolux  Maintaining maximum Lux for upto two years (16,000 hours)

Osram 600w Planta Maintaining maximum Lux for upto two years (16,000 hours)

Osram 600w Son-T Maintaining maximum Lux for upto two years (16,000 hours)

Venture 400w Metal Halide Maintaining maximum Lux for upto two years (8,000 hours)

hope this help's

OP

[ICaneBud]

The lighting thread to end all lighting threads, but you've probably tried it already OP

[oldtimer1]

Sorry folks I wanted the figures for the venture 600w mh pref the initial lumen and at the 100 hr run in phase. I have been growing and testing lighting systems for over 30 years. When we started we knew nothing, the first cabinet had a mix of grolux, warm white and cool white fluorescent tubes round the walls of the cabinet and a mercury lamp overhead. This was before metal arc, metal halide and son-t plus lamps were introduced. We have never stopped trying to improve the quality of the grass produced indoors.

This test is just using a 600w MH in combination with a 400w son-t plus light over a 20 sq ft area. This is to give an idea how the plants do under this combination, as every environment requires tweaking to get the best out of the plants.  Once this is done we will do a comparative grow side by side against our standard light combination, which is a 600w son-t plus and a 400w HQI-T MH.

Our aim is not so much quantity [although that is important as well] but quality and the complexity of the high.  We are looking to get the best potential the genetics in our collection are capable of producing.  We know from experience that the worst possible lighting environment for producing potency during flowering is the sodium lamp,  The 600w sodium/400w MH is a good compromise but lacks that final edge the MH alone brings. But I’m hoping the 600w MH/400w S will be better than the reverse combo.

KC33 yes its new.

bc pete I’m aware of the fall off of both MH and sodium lamps. It happens you can’t compare the two when it comes to lumens for photosynthesis its the par output that counts even that is not directly relevant when it comes to the spectrums that stimulates the plant to produce the most complex thc its genetic makeup is capable of.

OP thanks for the figures, Venture recommend replacing their 400w MH lamps every 20,000 hrs. We change ours every 4,500 hrs about a years use on 12/12 as they are only used during flowering. As we veg with sodium only, and are used it in combo when flowering they get changed every year as well ie at about 5000 hrs

I posted the comments below in another forum here before, so you have a drift of some of the conclusions we have drawn to date, I'm reposting it here.

>>>>>>>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~repost~~~~~~~~~~~

It looks like I will be a lone voice here. We did comparative tests in in 92/3 between Phillips son-t plus and the son-ta [agro] using known mother line clones. The spec after the initial 100hrs was 52kl for the agro and 56.5kl for the plus. Without going into too great a detail. The yield from the agro light was 21.7% lower.

In 96 we did a similar comparison between the osram 600w nav-t-super 90kl and the osram 600w nav-t-planta 78kl. Once again the yield was some 17.6% lower ie in both cases more than would be expected from the lower lumen output. In both cases the quality of the high and bud density was not as good with the so called blue enhanced lights.

Unfortunately an awful lot of absolute garbage has been written and continually repeated and republished over the years. Drug cannabis only originates from areas in the world where the overall light spectrum never drops below 5400?k. The mellow warm orange light of autumn and its effect on cannabis is just some stoners dream and total crap. If you were up in the Hindu kush [about as far north as really potent cannabis grows wild] long after the harvest and the snow line has come down and and killed the plants! Even then the light is still in the high energy part of the spectrum ie blues and violet.

Virtually all the the base varieties that make up the named indoor lines in Holland today were originally selected and bred in the states. They were developed using metal arc lighting, nice potent varieties. When David Watson took some of these lines to Holland and opened the first seed bank, the Dutch started growing puff inside as well using these lines as they came available. The farmers son’s who were already used to growing under glass using high bay supplementary lighting with low energy requirement crops like chrysanthemums to tomatoes. Took to it like ducks to water and it was only a short step taking the same systems completely indoors using the same low energy spectrum lights and more to the point breeding under them. I suspect this is the main reason for the steady decline in potency of Dutch genetics over the last 20 years.

It is also interesting that some of the small boutique American breeders have now developed varieties that stand out head and shoulders above the so called premier Dutch seed banks when it comes to potency and quality. I think this may well be due to them using mixed spectrum lighting in their breeding rooms and some also using supplementary uv for selective pressure.

I suspect some of the newer breeders growing and selecting under polytunnels in Switzerland may well start producing better quality and higher potency vars as time goes by as well. Not just because of the amount of plants they are selecting from but also from the enhanced light spectrum that is inherent at the altitude they are growing at. Also the polythene does not block the uv and the higher end of the blue spectrum like glass does. I remember Wernard saying years back that identical cuttings grown in Holland under polythene against a glasshouse were far more potent because the poly didn't block the full spectrum of the sunlight. We have done similar experiments in the grow room with high potency clone line plants and it holds true there as well. A clear 1kw HQI-T MH produces the most potent weed followed closely by a mix of 600w son-t and a clear 400w HQI-T not quite as potent with slightly more yield, followed a long long way back for potency by a 1kw son-t-plus but about 8% higher yield in weight than the pure halide. My personal choice for growing are the mixed lights as its really flexible in what you can do. For breeding I go for pure halide all the way. So basically all our findings go right against current thinking. But we are only interested in quality, what the weed does when smoked and not the biggest weight per watt.

Finally HPI-T halides as made by Phillips are hopeless where as Ventures HQI-T lamps are really good and have been made so they can be run directly off sodium ballasts. I have nothing to report on the Venture or Iwasaki 600w HQI-T metal halide lamps but we hope to be doing some test grows later this year or early next.

Sorry for the long post I’ll shut up for a bit.

[Oldpink]

I have been messing around with my 400's using combination's

of HPS and MH

the mix was 2 x 400w Son T's and 1 400w Sylvania MH in 16 sq ft

for the first 2 week's then all sodium from then on

with great result's so far

much better early flowering growth and better bud production later on

I asked my local growshop owner and he thought about 70,000

initial but after that he didn't know

good luck with the experiment's

OP

[Guest THE PUFFER]

The complexity of the high is so, so important within a sativa grow.

The invaluable information OT1 previously posted and re-posted here has prompted myself to indulge in a new experimental GR consisting of 1 X 600W MH HQI T and 2 X 400W HPS.

We all have to change our bulbs, infrequently maybe but we have to and I suggest working around the bulb range so you can see for yourself. Try the agro, plus, mh and clear mh and record the differences.

What you may lose in yields you may get back in potency.

[Guest THE PUFFER]

Sorry bud...I forgot to add the lumen bit

Im not sure of the Lumen ouput per rated Watt...I would hazard a guess at the total being around 95-100,000 but I know you don't want guesses

Would the extra lumen mean an expanded grow area or same space test for quality ?

PEACE

[George]

Sorry folks I wanted the figures for the venture 600w mh pref the initial lumen and at the 100 hr run in phase. I have been growing and testing lighting systems for over 30 years. When we started we knew nothing, the first cabinet had a mix of grolux, warm white and cool white fluorescent tubes round the walls of the cabinet and a mercury lamp overhead. This was before metal arc, metal halide and son-t plus lamps were introduced. We have never stopped trying to improve the quality of the grass produced indoors.

This test is just using a 600w MH in combination with a 400w son-t plus light over a 20 sq ft area. This is to give an idea how the plants do under this combination, as every environment requires tweaking to get the best out of the plants.  Once this is done we will do a comparative grow side by side against our standard light combination, which is a 600w son-t plus and a 400w HQI-T MH.

Our aim is not so much quantity [although that is important as well] but quality and the complexity of the high.  We are looking to get the best potential the genetics in our collection are capable of producing.  We know from experience that the worst possible lighting environment for producing potency during flowering is the sodium lamp,  The 600w sodium/400w MH is a good compromise but lacks that final edge the MH alone brings. But I’m hoping the 600w MH/400w S will be better than the reverse combo.

KC33 yes its new.

bc pete I’m aware of the fall off of both MH and sodium lamps. It happens you can’t compare the two when it comes to lumens for photosynthesis its the par output that counts even that is not directly relevant when it comes to the spectrums that stimulates the plant to produce the most complex thc its genetic makeup is capable of.

OP thanks for the figures, Venture recommend replacing their 400w MH lamps every 20,000 hrs. We change ours every 4,500 hrs about a years use on 12/12 as they are only used during flowering. As we veg with sodium only, and are used it in combo when flowering they get changed every year as well ie at about 5000 hrs

I posted the comments below in another forum here before, so you have a drift of some of the conclusions we have drawn to date, I'm reposting it here.

>>>>>>>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~repost~~~~~~~~~~~

It looks like I will be a lone voice here. We did comparative tests in in 92/3 between Phillips son-t plus and the son-ta [agro] using known mother line clones. The spec after the initial 100hrs was 52kl for the agro and 56.5kl for the plus. Without going into too great a detail. The yield from the agro light was 21.7% lower.

In 96 we did a similar comparison between the osram 600w nav-t-super 90kl and the osram 600w nav-t-planta 78kl. Once again the yield was some 17.6% lower ie in both cases more than would be expected from the lower lumen output. In both cases the quality of the high and bud density was not as good with the so called blue enhanced lights.

Unfortunately an awful lot of absolute garbage has been written and continually repeated and republished over the years. Drug cannabis only originates from areas in the world where the overall light spectrum never drops below 5400?k. The mellow warm orange light of autumn and its effect on cannabis is just some stoners dream and total crap. If you were up in the Hindu kush [about as far north as really potent cannabis grows wild] long after the harvest and the snow line has come down and and killed the plants! Even then the light is still in the high energy part of the spectrum ie blues and violet.

Virtually all the the base varieties that make up the named indoor lines in Holland today were originally selected and bred in the states. They were developed using metal arc lighting, nice potent varieties. When David Watson took some of these lines to Holland and opened the first seed bank, the Dutch started growing puff inside as well using these lines as they came available. The farmers son’s who were already used to growing under glass using high bay supplementary lighting with low energy requirement crops like chrysanthemums to tomatoes. Took to it like ducks to water and it was only a short step taking the same systems completely indoors using the same low energy spectrum lights and more to the point breeding under them. I suspect this is the main reason for the steady decline in potency of Dutch genetics over the last 20 years.

It is also interesting that some of the small boutique American breeders have now developed varieties that stand out head and shoulders above the so called premier Dutch seed banks when it comes to potency and quality. I think this may well be due to them using mixed spectrum lighting in their breeding rooms and some also using supplementary uv for selective pressure.

I suspect some of the newer breeders growing and selecting under polytunnels in Switzerland may well start producing better quality and higher potency vars as time goes by as well. Not just because of the amount of plants they are selecting from but also from the enhanced light spectrum that is inherent at the altitude they are growing at. Also the polythene does not block the uv and the higher end of the blue spectrum like glass does. I remember Wernard saying years back that identical cuttings grown in Holland under polythene against a glasshouse were far more potent because the poly didn't block the full spectrum of the sunlight. We have done similar experiments in the grow room with high potency clone line plants and it holds true there as well. A clear 1kw HQI-T MH produces the most potent weed followed closely by a mix of 600w son-t and a clear 400w HQI-T not quite as potent with slightly more yield, followed a long long way back for potency by a 1kw son-t-plus but about 8% higher yield in weight than the pure halide. My personal choice for growing are the mixed lights as its really flexible in what you can do. For breeding I go for pure halide all the way. So basically all our findings go right against current thinking. But we are only interested in quality, what the weed does when smoked and not the biggest weight per watt.

Finally HPI-T halides as made by Phillips are hopeless where as Ventures HQI-T lamps are really good and have been made so they can be run directly off sodium ballasts. I have nothing to report on the Venture or Iwasaki 600w HQI-T metal halide lamps but we hope to be doing some test grows later this year or early next.

Sorry for the long post I’ll shut up for a bit.

You carry on ot1 Im reading ,not absorbing much WAYYYYYYYYY over my head, but interesting.

Question, would it be better to build the room area to suit the lamp, light spread etc

Question 2

What would be the light you would purchase if you could only buy one to produce enough for three peops, and size room to suit

I am so confused at which/ what lamp to purchase and am relying on your vast knoledge,, sort of oldtimer report, happy days soon sj

[George]

oops sorry joolz quoted again

[oldtimer1]

sj don’t want to seem rude but you haven't come back when I’ve replied on Q’s you have asked me before.

You want advise! To make it good advise I need answers to a few questions first!

How much puff do your 3 people need, say per week!

Can you get back on that first please?

[Guest bc pete]

i have been searching everywere for a 600 watt halide and could'nt find anything listed.

venture lamps; are you certain this boilb is'nt, and i hate to say it, a useless mercury unit, as venture manufacture mercury vapour lamps

anyone considering mercury lights should reconsider, leave them for pedestrians to see their way home

bc pete