The Government Needs Money To Free The Weed

[Guest justagirl]

I just want to say a huge thanks to everyone who has offered some poitive feedback, i am aware some people dont understand what the LCA is about, and I agree with those that say it should be free, I am just trying to find an opening for discussions with parliment, if we have ideas to work on, it helps, without the support of the cannabis community there is no point in our existance, please keep adding your comments with ways we can change things,

meanwhile can i sugest if we have an LCA Hate campaign they start a new thread for the row?

Comments like the following are sad and in my opinion just show what we are up against when our own community is obviously suffering from tourettes syndrome? but i dont really get why? fuck us before we were born? Is this guy a peadophile?

"Whilst at it, fuck the LCA too, what a load of bollocks. Give Booj a few joints of Sativa and a CannaMan suit, ;o) make more noise, or ave another conferance why dont ya. I have not heard fuck all from the LCA since the last conferance and calls for 'what shoudl we dos'

Tell em the message from the people is fuck em, long before they where born and long after the weed will still be growing, go arrest that, its incitement to me.

No license, No tax, at the most the 'Dutch' options. They need to get on with turning a blind eye and go solve some more serious issues. Thats the 'Dutch' system. That should be the message. Fuck off and do summit more usefull."

oh dear me, it seems that there will always be someone whos quick to critisize, fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion, even though you do not support what we are trying to do, i really mean in when i say, i hope you never get busted, or get ill and need to rely on cannabis, just because you are happy to carry on regardless it doesnt mean other people are so comfatable with it, why are you so against legalisation? Are you a dealer who thinks he'll lose out, or just a cannabis user who doesnt care about the rest of his fellow tokers welfare, cause if that is the case, well its a shame that the cannabis community attracts the same sort of people we try to avoid.

Anyway the thing is, we have to ask what people think, suprisingly every other political party works in much the same way, they have to find candidates and find funds, this is real life, okayso you dont support the LCA, who do you vote for, or don't you vote at all? (Just interested)

cheers everyone Justagirl

[DeeCee]

C'mon Deecee - we can never resolve it by just running away and leaving it. Yes, we got differing views. Hardly surprising. Surely a forum like this is just the place to air all our views and try to see if there is or could be a way forward.......

Urm, I thought that was why the thread was started

We aint going to resolve it with 'fuck the govt' either mate,anyway i thought this thread was started by an LCA rep to find out ways the govt could make money from legalisation, not wether you agreed with this point or approach?.

I think your 'fuck the govt' plan wont get us anywhere fast, i also think its a very selfish way of looking at things. See us members of uk420 are fortunate, most of us can grow our own,what about the man in the street who likes a smoke but has to resort to buying from dealers, what about people working shitty jobs living in bedsits? who work all hours to survive and like a smoke to escape fro pressures of society Where are they supposed to grow and find the time to? and more to the point how is 'fuck the govt' going to help them?.

The point im making is we the grower are a minority in the mj chain, there are more people who cant grow than do. We are fortunate so when you say fuck the govt i can only think you are saying the same to those less fortunate than ourself's.

'Im alright jack , ive got mine ,so long as i keep growing the govt will see sense and let others' Cant see that working to be honest mate.

As i say we are the fortunate ones, we are growing and on here discussing, i think its high time we used these privelidges to benefit others.

IMHO the only way is to take all the hard work out of the govt's decision,by giving them all the information, i dont mean arguments about 'Its my right' and its 'medicinal properties' and 'Religious reasons', these are parts of the argument yes but not all of it.

The govt needs to be shown how THEY and US-the people can benefit from legalisation, as ive already said this mainly boils down to money.As well as jobs and crime reduction. Look at decisions they make now, they are all down to those 3 points.

So if we show them how they can make money from it, reasonable to both sides of the arguement,

How jobs can be created, There are MANY remember mj has more uses than just smoking (fuel and Building Materials spring to mind to name just 2)

and how legalisation can reduce crime and take criminals out of the equation.

Not to mention the scientific research that is so badly needed.

If all these were laid out ,with plans on how they should be implemented then the hard work would be done for them, and all this work would give Pro-cannabis lobby ,a huge lot to shout about and take to the street.

This is a huge topic for discussion , but i find 'fuck the govt' and 'fuck LCA' hard to relate to , i cant see where thats going to get us. LCA may have there faults, to be honest i dnt know a thing about them, but theyre the only ones i can see out there fighting the cause so surely we should give them all the help and support we can, not just piss on there fire.

As i say im not going to debate the way we should be going towards legalisation if all where going to get is 'fuck the govt' -Thats the end of the debate as far as i can tell.

We may not like them,and we may have to comprimise on a few things, but if we can make mj legal in anyway shape or form its got to be a good thing, so long as we the people arnt being shafted out of the deal by big companies, sure let them set the up but let the people grow there own in whatever guise that has to be.

[Arnold Layne]

That's more like it DeeCee, a good robust argument. I like that

Look, it all depends on how you understand "fekk the Gov". I don't know what you think I mean (I'm gonna ignore the "I'm alright Jack" dig because it Soooooooooo far off target ), but I'll tell you what I am saying: The only way you'll ever get law changed in this hole of a country is by massive public disobedience. If you want a good example look at the way the gay community went about getting that law changed. Massive, offensive-to-many, public disobedience. They were able to be disobedient to the law because they knew they were right, and so - "sod what anyone thinks we gonna do it!". So big was the disobedience that the Police gave up and told the Gov that the law was unworkable. Gov then says "OK" and the rest is history.......

Now they could have gone all polite, accepted the Opposition view about the dangers of buggery etc etc, and sought a compromise. Perhaps a law that allowed over 25's to be privately gay? And you know what I think? They'd have still been in the closet today.

You want the Cannabis laws changed? Massive Public Disobedience. Its costly - most of us who start it will end up chewing a lump of time (hey no probs, I done a bit before I'll hapilly share a cell with anyone from UK420), and it'll take a bit of time. But you WILL get the law changed.

But if we go softly and politely, accepting the propagandic claims of a Gov that is known to be deceptive to the core (45 mins from Iraqi weapons? ), what will happen? Draconian control, and a "legalisation" by name alone because the last thing you will get is decent weed. I repeat again: Look at the way tobacco has fared. Moreover the medi-weed will be placed firmly in the hands of Big Pharma, and that's just no good at all.

Please DeeCee, I spent a great many years pondering these things since that first spliff 35 odd years ago - show me a better way and I'll take it. I am open to it M8, for all you may think otherwise. But you gotta convince me.......

PS - I always make more sense in the evening. Just had my nap, you see. But mornings - Oooohh, no, missis, grumpy bears spring to mind, and manic sleep deprived loons

[Guest justagirl]

deecee,

nice call mate, i couldnt have said it better myself, you seem like you have a sensible head on your shoulders, i like that!

if you are wondering about the lca and dont know much, take a look at the lca website www.lca-uk.org

there are alot of people who wish we were more than a single issue party and fought more than legalisation of cannabis, but as you can see from this thread alone, we cant even discuss the smallest of policies without a huge row, emagine how hard we'd have it asking everyone on this site how we can improve the rest of the Uk, when we cant settle on a cannabis argument!

Personally i am quite positive that the revune that could be generated by 6 million cannabis users would be enough to improve plenty of things, as well as having a cannabis waste re-cycle system for home growers which would solve loads of environmental issues, ie paper, fuel and clothing, the revenue could provide more hospitals, more prisons, better education, whatever, but first we need to get the cannabis argument together.

i am sure as fook that if we ever got into power (dream on!) that we would do a far better job, because we are actually human, and give a shit about most of whats happening in the Uk and around the world, its just hard to fight everyones corner, with little cash and little support!

thanks again

justa

[abstract1]

I just want to say a huge thanks to everyone who has offered some poitive feedback

I'll assume, for ease, that you're also open to constructive criticism, and consider it of value (?)

meanwhile can i sugest if we have an LCA Hate campaign they start a new thread for the row?

I think there's one already!

Comments like the following are sad and in my opinion just show what we are up against when our own community is obviously suffering from tourettes syndrome? but i dont really get why? fuck us before we were born? Is this guy a peadophile?

What an odd thing to say - perhaps a little work on 'appropriate' replies to sticky questions/comments might be in order (?)

oh dear me, it seems that there will always be someone whos quick to critisize

Yes there will - always! And when you're seriously out there lobbying and dealing with parliament, you will come up against very skilled operators and spinners - you need to be equally skilled!!

i really mean in when i say, i hope you never get busted, or get ill and need to rely on cannabis, just because you are happy to carry on regardless it doesnt mean other people are so comfatable with it, why are you so against legalisation? Are you a dealer who thinks he'll lose out, or just a cannabis user who doesnt care about the rest of his fellow tokers welfare, cause if that is the case, well its a shame that the cannabis community attracts the same sort of people we try to avoid.

Yeah but, no but, yeah but........

Pfffft!

Oh, and my position - nicked from another thread:

I couldn't possibly vote LCA I'm afraid - if I decide to vote and not spoil! wink.gif

Whilst I fully support the legalisation of cannabis - the LCA do not offer anything like what's needed in terms of policy for things such as health, education, public services, etc, and I consider these wider issues to be of considerably more importance than the legalisation of weed. Poverty, poor housing, poor health services, poor education, public transport and unemployment affect enormous numbers within our population and, these are the things I want to see addressed through robust policy, which moves towards creating a more inclusive society.

If I seem harsh - I've just run the gauntlet of the M25/M11 - Oh, and a silly girl who wasn't quite as brave out of her Evo as she was in it......

isn't that right love???

Edited February 11, 2005 by abstract1

[abstract1]

If you worked in the Government how would you try to make money out of cannabis, in the unlikley case it was legalised?

305347[/snapback]

Oh, and to answer your original question - I would never work in Government!

But if I were to suffer such a mental aberration, I would probably ask a successful capitalist what he thought, then buy shares in his company!

Edited February 11, 2005 by abstract1

[Arnold Layne]

Justa - I have jusy read right thru this thread again.

Huge row

Where is it? OK Queijo got all hot and bothered, and was put back in place buy others. But apart from that, and me on me soap box as ever, where's the "Huge row"?

But this I will say - peeps should stop making personal assumptions. Here's a beauty:

I think your 'fuck the govt' plan wont get us anywhere fast, i also think its a very selfish way of looking at things. See us members of uk420 are fortunate, most of us can grow our own,what about the man in the street who likes a smoke but has to resort to buying from dealers, what about people working shitty jobs living in bedsits? who work all hours to survive and like a smoke to escape fro pressures of society Where are they supposed to grow and find the time to? and more to the point how is 'fuck the govt' going to help them?.

OK, selfish am I? And on what grand grounds did DeeCee base this psychological insight? Tell you what: Its bollox. Its offensive. It untrue. And I couldn't give a toss. I've done time for supplying those peeps in need, in the past. I am risking doing it again right now by growing. And some fella comes and calls me selfish? Well whoop-di-do, I'll run of and cry Not - can we have serious argument please?

Look, I may be Wrong. You can judge that by what I write. But when folks start talking in terms like "selfish" then we just got down to character assassination, and a "Huge Row" could easilly start....... But I aint gonna start it

Edited par moi, to add: Abstract1: , ya cute thang - I'm blowing ya a big kiss now

Edited February 11, 2005 by Arnold Layne

[sibannac]

Wether we get allowed to grow at home with or without tax wether big business ends up supplying it i for one will continue to grow my own. Why swap one dealer for a worse one.

Third rule of life applies again

FUCK 'EM.

Edited February 11, 2005 by sibannac

[Arnold Layne]

:stiffled tittering:

[Guest justagirl]

abstract 1,

yup always up for constructive feedback, but i dont agree that Queijo telling me the Lca should fuck themselves before they were born is constructive, its just bloody rude, and if i am mistaken and queijo meant someone else, then i am wrong, but thats how it read to me, can you blame me for pointing it out?

at the end of a very long day, all i want to say is this thread was posted for people who wanted to help out with the LCA's movement, my thread didnt ask: who hates the lca and why? who disagrees with the LCA? or who gives a fuck about the lca? yet you both seem to be giving me all these answers to unanswered questions, which are irrelevent to this thread.

both you and queijo seem to be completely anti-lca so i dont get why you are jumping on this thread giving me shit?

weather you agree with me or what i do doesnt bother me at all, i know there are lots of people that dont understand, but i dont understand why anyone who doesnt support the LCA in anyway would want to even "waste" their time commenting on something they dont even care about!!!

and regards your "yea but no but yea" I write what i do because i care, and believe me or not i have seen people die because they were treated so shit for using cannabis as a medicine, so i'll say it how it is, you might have "done your bit" and given up, well i'm still trying, i do not want people in pain, and i dont want cannabis to be illegal.

Justagirl

and if i am ranting its because i've read all this bollocks, i could bore you with my "problems" that cause me to rant at complete strangers, but hey, you dont know me why should you care!

[DeeCee]

Arnie , i really dont want to argue with you, i think you are pretty sensible, but your last claim about my using of the word 'selfish' needs to be addressed. I realise you arnt going to make a big fuss, there is no need.but i must clarify.

From what you have written , you believe that i have made a claim that you personally, are selfish. This is wrong.

I think that your' mass disobedience route to legalisation' is a selfish route to take, not you personally.

What you are saying is that , the more trouble we cause the govt while mj is illegal the quicker we are going to get to legalisation?

Explain this to me if you would, Is my understanding correct. You believe that by more and more people growing there own, supplying theselves and close group of friends that this is the 'fuck you to govt'? and the way ahead?.

Take a look mate, All following is IMHO

The situation at the minute regarding MJ supply chain.

You have select minority, People like us on this site growing small amounts for themselves and in some cases for there select friends.We follow the line of defense that it was all personal upon arrest. We usually have the best quality available in the country.

Then we have a larger amount of small or big time criminals , That usually have funding of there own or organised to have larger semi- commercial opperation, more often than not more than one semi-commercial operations. Upon arrest they plead the same as the small time grower, all personal 9 times out of 10 they dont even smoke weed, When leaving court theyre usually on way to another of there grows.They supply drug dealers who then sell on. These people are making a lot of money for relatively small risk. They usually supply mediocre weed which makes its way to the majority of smokers.

Then you have the BIG boys, These are making vast profits from importation of cheap often dangerous 'Hash' and low grade grass,some may have large grow opperations,which produce same quality as small time crooks.These are the guys making vast profits selling the most amount of mj out of all the supply chain usually to the lower class and poor.

This is a very basic descrption This may not be fully correct but i think its pretty close, Idont really like to categorise things, but i would think this is how the govt or police would look at the situation. If you look at this site, and think how much mj all members could produce, Then look through all the busts ,and hauls from customs bongme so wonderfully keeps us updated with. Look at these figures and think about it. Remember they only get about 10% of the imported stuff. So you can see what i am saying here,the majority of mj in uk does not come from the homegrower, thats changing, but where still poles apart.

Now who is it that has major control over MJ as a whole in the uk? I would say criminals.

Who is it fighting the cause for legalisation? I would say majority being home growers.and what do we do to fight the cause?

we have the odd march and protest, get on the telly , even have a minor celeb saying something pro mj in public.Now and again the odd medical report in our favour and a granny who eats space cake.the rest of the time were arguing about how to grow and how to legalise weed on internet forums only we read. Great

Still the majority of news we AND NON MJ USERS read and see about cannabis,is usually regarding busts, mostly large ones. Granted this could be put down to the medias control and unwillingness to broadcast anything pro cannabis, But i think the large amounts being found might have something to do with it.

This can only tell the non Mj user one thing and give govt one decision, Its a criminal activity and needs to remain illegal. Due to the govts belief that they offer big enough detterents for arrest to stop criminals doing it.

And so the circle goes on. And we the homegrower suffer

This is basically how i see things at the minute, and pretty much my understanding of the 'fuck the govt' Route to legalization. Can you see how it makes the homegrower 'selfish' We smoke all the best weed and way too much of it ,whilst the masses fuel the criminal activity that keeps the police busy and busts in the news witch keeps the whole wheel turning.

Now as i stated above, This is all My honest opinion of the way things are, i am open to correction as i may have the wrong understanding.

Now i can see how 1 day the wheel may hit a bump, like some major medical breakthrough, or govt making there own plan to control or even enough people 'fucking the govt' to give them no choice but to legalise. But id sooner take the fight to them , why wait for the bump, they may figure out a terrible way to bring in legalisation, much like the whole de-crimming affair, where we end up smoking govt made weed, sure still homegrowers operating illegally but masses would have to contend with 1 or 2 major companys producing mass produced shit while us illegal growers grow and smoke the good stuff ,then crims would employ growers and oops there goes the wheel again.

I know im ranting but can you see my understanding and view of the current situation? As i say i may have completely the wrong idea and am talking absoloute bollox if so point it out to me.

This isnt an argument and i havnt read this back to myself

[DeeCee]

With reference to the gays,

I dont think the laws regarding gays can be compared to legalisation of mary j , for a start gays arnt a easily made drug that is in mass demand and considered by some to be a currency.

Now i can understand how you say that they used mass disobedience to change laws, but they were gay , they were going to be gay wether the law changed or not, same as were going to grow wether its legal or not, toking and growing is a way of life,much like being gay is i would imagine. Gays fought for it with mass disobedience you say? i dont know ive never looked into the laws that gays changed and how they did it, but i cant imagine the sentanceing for breaking whatever laws they changed resulted in possible jail terms and being unable to travel to some parts of the world,As we growers face.

What has happened since gays changed whatever laws they changed?

As i say i dont keep abreast of happenings in the gay community so i dont know what they got changed? but I know they must have done something because there are more gay people on television and in the media than ever before and i would imagine there are more gay people now than before, what can i say there community is thriving after whatever they got changed changed.Great big up to them.

So i can see where you get the idea to use the route gays used but as i say in reality gays arnt and dont produce goods that have a money value at the end of the day. So from this assumption alone i wouldnt look at this route as a viable method to legalisation. All i can see this getting us is further down the road on the wheel we are already riding

[Hir]

. . . what OT1 said about the bickering ...

.. . the left always gets into trouble come a revolution because socialism has many hues and time is wasted bickering before the battle is fought and hopeful war won.

all of socialism has one same idea, redistribute the means of production/wealth

that society allows people to do what they want with thier own bodies is the one common desire of people on this board. Maybe if this 'war' is won it will be won in small steps but it wont if we cant find a common idea, what ever it might be, (BOOJUM..........!) that everybody could get behind, given that other views will still be held.

divide and rule so lets get a uniting idea ( .... BOOJUM! ... where is he?)

. . . smell of burning orange box ....

[Guest stone win]

Queijo and abstract1.....What have you done today to make you feel proud?.....winstone I do think you should try another thread as advised

[sibannac]

I've been mulling over what the lca could do instead of being political and have come up with this idea.

Why not become the central hub for all cannabis related activism, keep records of all pro cannabis and human rights solicitors and barristers co ordinate all protests become the main lobbyist group. Get onto the talk shows stating the FACTS about cannabis its history etc etc.

Maybe organise national newspaper adverts putting our side of the argument you know the truth about cannabis.

Become the fund raisers for the multitude of groups scattered around the country so people have just one address to send donations and then send them on etc etc .

Just a few raw thoughts so dont shout at me

We need to get more pro active imho