Boojum Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Do we decide what kind of politics we agree with and disagree with, or is it a part of our personality. Are we born to be left wing/right wing (to oversimplify it) ? My whole life I've believed in standing up for those that can't stand up for themselves. I've believed that we should help each other. I've believed in fairness and justice. I've hated selfishness. I've hated bullies. I've believed that (taking it right back to childhood terms) the people with the most toys should share them with the people who don't have any toys. I think I've always been 'left wing' and even, dare I use the term, a socialist. Was I born like that ? Are tories born tories ? Are they born selfish, did they grow up always thinking "I'm alright Jack, fuck you." Is it nature or nurture ? Are some people born caring about others, and other people born just caring about themselves ? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojum Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 I guess what I really mean is are caring and empathy, and on the other side selfishness inherited traits, or are they learned ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nu Jerzey Devil Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 guess its about striking a ballance, too much of anything can be a bad thing, right or left wing, prosperous or poor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojum Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Doesn't really address the question. Were David Cameron, Boris Johnson et al born selfish cunts. Did they emerge from the womb with total self-interest and a complete lack of empathy. Are tories born selfish and socialists born caring about others ? Or were they shaped that way by their life experiences ? Are the Eton, Bullingdon club set selfish cunts because they went to Eton and were taught to be that way, or were they already cunts and it just happens that they went to Eton. It's a chicken and egg question, which came first, the selfishness and self interest or the privileged background and upbringing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordie Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Both, to everything... Caring and empathy plus selfishness can all be inherited and learned. Just as much as the capacity we have for these things can be inherited and learned, by that I mean whether we hold a great measure of these things inside or a bit. Also how receptive to these feelings we are when presented then from someone else. Same with politics and religion, violence, passionate love. Politeness even. That's why positive role models are so important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGFACE22 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Because their fathers and fathers fathers were greedy, backstabbing bastards who trod on others to obtain their 'wealth'. Greed is the biggest weapon of mass destruction Clever, ruthless, yet greedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Kruger Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Do we decide what kind of politics we agree with and disagree with, or is it a part of our personality. Are we born to be left wing/right wing (to oversimplify it) ? My whole life I've believed in standing up for those that can't stand up for themselves. I've believed that we should help each other. I've believed in fairness and justice. I've hated selfishness. I've hated bullies. I've believed that (taking it right back to childhood terms) the people with the most toys should share them with the people who don't have any toys. I think I've always been 'left wing' and even, dare I use the term, a socialist. Was I born like that ? Are tories born tories ? Are they born selfish, did they grow up always thinking "I'm alright Jack, fuck you." Is it nature or nurture ? Are some people born caring about others, and other people born just caring about themselves ? WOT ? You can't just claim people that vote Tory are selfish or that they have an "im alright jack fuck you attitude" that is ludicrous and frankly outragous. Do all the people that work in the health sector and many other social services ( yes there are many ) that vote Tory yet spend their lives in the service and care of others deserve to be labelled so selfish people simply because they differ in opinion politically ? Its dangerous to judge a person simply by their voting choice and its a trap too many fall into. Politics is just another control method of divide and conquer using that old tribe mentality and ego that makes the group think they are the only ones that are right about anything and everything. I guess what I really mean is are caring and empathy, and on the other side selfishness inherited traits, or are they learned ? That is the real question and its really better left well away from politics... the answer is yes to both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojum Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) you can't just claim people that vote Tory are selfish or that they have an "im alright jack fuck you attitude" that is ludicrous and frankly outragous. I can and do state (not claim, but categorically state) that true tories are selfish. I didn't say that everyone who votes tory is, don't twist my words. Not everyone who votes tory is really a tory, not everyone who votes tory actually understands tory ideology. But make no mistake, true tory ideology is absolutely selfish, it is absolutely about what's best for me. Edited March 22, 2015 by Boojum 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jacks lad Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 my dad talked about nothing, his only interest was alcohol and work, he worked for the I.C.I and i suspect he voted conservative like a good employee, we had a conservative mp until the scousers got here, thank goodness for scousers, we now have 2 mp's mine is still tory the other is labour, i dont vote. i am nothing like i appear to be painted on this site, i think a lot like booj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildbill Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I think Booj can claim whatever he wants, especially when it makes sense. My view is that it is our up bringing that shapes our outlook and our politics, especially our childhood and adolesence. As an example, I can remember hearing parents that sent their children to private school, which they themselves did not attend say that there inevitably comes a point where their children become ashamed of them. Where their friends, way of talking and interests have so little in common with the way their parents live that they have to distance themselves from them. They accepted this as a sad but inevitable part of the private education they were paying for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenVision Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I guess what I really mean is are caring and empathy, and on the other side selfishness inherited traits, or are they learned ? I believe they are learned. Like many things growing up, "We are what we see", "Monkey see monkey do". Part of the problem for me is that the brave and selfless are taken advantage of by the weak and selfish. A selfless and "Good" person finds it hard to see that a person can simply just be "An asshole", and the selfish know this and exploit it at every turn. They say nice guys finish last, but that is only because the race is one sided. So yes I think political choices are part of who you are because of the personality you have. GV. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojum Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Let's examine one of the most basic principles of tory ideology - tax is bad, paying for welfare and the NHS is bad. Why are they bad ? Because I have to pay money to support other people. It's MY money. Mine, mine, mine. Why should I pay MY money to help other people less fortunate than me. It's My money. MINE. If you can explain to me how and why that's not totally selfish I may concede the point Edited March 22, 2015 by Boojum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Kruger Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I can and do state (not claim, but categorically state) that true tories are selfish. I didn't say that everyone who votes tory is, don't twist my words. Not everyone who votes tory is really a tory, not everyone who votes tory actually understands tory ideology. But make no mistake, true tory ideology is absolutely selfish, it is absolutely about what's best for me. You originally failed to define Tory in any way shape or form. I wasnt twisting your words only taking them as they were written. So lets get this correct, anyone belonging to the Tory party or classing themselves if asked as conservatives in your mind must therefore be all the things you claim then yes or no ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblingmadman Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 These things are definitely learnt. Nobody is born a tory , or a racist or a homophobe . I don't actually believe that anyone is born bad , it's massively down to their upbringing . This means if we condemn anyone , we are actually condemning ourselves and everyoneelse , because in those circs we could have been them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojum Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 You originally failed to define Tory in any way shape or form. I wasnt twisting your words only taking them as they were written. So lets get this correct, anyone belonging to the Tory party or classing themselves if asked as conservatives in your mind must therefore be all the things you claim then yes or no ? Anyone who agrees with basic tory ideology is selfish, because basic tory ideology is selfish. Anyone who belongs to the tory party and doesn't agree with basic tory ideology is, frankly, a bit of an idiot. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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