Theology discussion split from French Massacre thread

[the_pimp]

Do you need to be religious to believe in an afterlife?

[stummer]

I don't see how people believe in something they have no proof off its abit like the boogey man to me. That said people can do what they want believe in whatever you wish and as long as your not harming others live how you wish. I just see religion as a form of control and political tool. Why are people so bothered about who made the world? Just enjoy living in it and make the most of it.

[JimmyPage]

Do you need to be religious to believe in an afterlife?

Buddhists believe in reincarnation, but no god (it's the first thing they learn).

What is "religious" though ? Wiccan ? Pagan ? Jedi ?

[YoLo]

Do you need to be religious to believe in an afterlife?

Of course not, but religion has had the monopoly on 'spirituality' for thousands of years, completely unchallenged.

Takes time to undo something like that.

[crunchy frog]

But any kind of spirituality will be linked to a belief, would it not?

[JamieThePainter]

Do you need to be religious to believe in an afterlife?

No, but I dare say it helps. As for reincarnation, I don't class that as an after-life, myself, more of the next life. After-life implies that you are no longer in "life" but in some preserved area for those who once lived.

[mrchang]

[YoLo]

But any kind of spirituality will be linked to a belief, would it not?

Yes, but that belief need not be anything more than the standard dualist concept of there being more to us than our bodies. That something, the soul/spirit or whatever can survive beyond death of the vessel.

[Davey Jones]

What does that mean ? Respecting religion. Respect a bunch of made up bullshit. Are you kidding ?

Its nothing to do with respecting any made up bullshit or anything remotely like that, its about respecting people and religion is a very important thing to many many people in this world. If you ever had to work in a multicultural group you might understand not respecting peoples religion can land you in real hot water in the professional world

i think you simply misunderstand my posts mate to be honest

No Bazz, I dont think you realise how terrible your attitude is, to be honest

I have read your posts for years and I fully understand where you are coming from, hell I even agree with you mostly but I choose to keep my opinions to myself because I don't want to offend people for no good reason

You have massive faith in science despite having no real experience or education in the subject, without the mathematical foundations you can only believe in a very similar way that people believe in their god, yet its all so lacking and full of holes. There are basic everyday things that you can observe which have no explanation or expression its surprising how many things are like this.

I love science Baz but it leaves so much unaccounted for and thats why there will always be a place for religion and the like because at the end of the day no one can ever know for sure how its all here, the only definite is that its all very strange indeed

you respect everyones religion do you .....including those that commit these crimes ?

Killing people has got nothing to do with any religion whatsoever so your talking daft

so i think maybe another case of bazza in a religion thread .....get him

That says a lot to me Baz, think about it

I am my own person on here, I mostly post in the DIY section because thats me, I don't go around looking for brownie points and correct me if I am wrong Baz but we have had nothing but a pleasent experience when interacting on here in the past and I haven't posted in a single one of the many religion threads. I have no grudge towards you at all

I would be lieing if I said offended but last night when you called religion a myth that was what spured me to post because in the real world calling someones religion a myth is not nice, it looks very arrogant and you can argue it but thats the facts

So think about this Baz after all the shit on here over religion how do you feel about me a person who shares similar beliefs to yourself finds your attitude to religion upsetting, its got nothing to do with get him mentality or because you have upset my mate, I think you have a terrible attitude towards religion on these boards and I honestly believe it would be a little bit of a better place if you learnt to show a litle respect. Thats all I am saying baz

Godel even proved to you god does exist, what more do you want

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%F6del%27s_ontological_proof

• Definition 1: x is God-like if and only if x has as essential properties those and only those properties which are positive
• Definition 2: A is an essence of x if and only if for every property B, x has B necessarily if and only if A entails B
• Definition 3: x necessarily exists if and only if every essence of x is necessarily exemplified

• Axiom 1: Any property entailed by—i.e., strictly implied by—a positive property is positive
• Axiom 2: A property is positive if and only if its negation is not positive
• Axiom 3: The property of being God-like is positive
• Axiom 4: If a property is positive, then it is necessarily positive
• Axiom 5: Necessary existence is a positive property

Axiom 4 assumes that it is possible to single out positive properties from among all properties. Gödel comments that "Positive means positive in the moral aesthetic sense (independently of the accidental structure of the world)... It may also mean pure attribution as opposed to privation (or containing privation)." (Gödel 1995). Axioms 1, 2 and 3 can be summarized by saying that positive properties form a principal ultrafilter

From these axioms and definitions and a few other axioms from modal logic, the following theorems can be proved:

• Theorem 1: If a property is positive, then it is consistent, i.e., possibly exemplified.
• Theorem 2: The property of being God-like is consistent.
• Theorem 3: If something is God-like, then the property of being God-like is an essence of that thing.
• Theorem 4: Necessarily, the property of being God-like is exemplified.

[Guest bazzad9]

@@Davey Jones

so answer me this in this thread what has my main focus been regarding religion specificaly the majority of muslims ?

you havent read what ive posted or you wouldnt post the above nonsense .its an oppurtunity you saw to have a dig and you took it mate

[Guest bazzad9]

So think about this Baz after all the shit on here over religion how do you feel about me a person who shares similar beliefs to yourself finds your attitude to religion upsetting,

i would say for a start and most importantly ....tough shit

and secondly i would assume you havent undestood my points at all ,for definate in this thread

so again in this thread an example please ,you cant just throw shit out there and hope it sticks

i would also ask what is special about religion and not other beleif systems that dont get this special treatment

[Hiphip]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01/08/lbc-call-clegg-islam-charlie-hebdo_n_6436520.html?ir=UK+Politics

Nick Clegg Says Society Should Be 'Free To Offend' On LBC Call-In After Charlie Hebdo Shooting

Nick Clegg issued a stern lecture to a caller on his radio show Thursday morning after being questioned about the attack on Charlie Hebdo's office in Paris.

The killing is thought to have been carried out by Islamically inspired militants who took offence to the French magazine's publication of cartoons insulting the prophet Muhammad, but the Lib Dem leader slammed a caller who suggested things might go a bit deeper.

Caller Omar, from Croydon, said: "The cartoons, you could look at it, were the straw that broke the camel’s back.

"When ministers etc. start talking about what’s happened there, why do they never talk about everything else that’s going on? And then this happens at the end of it.

"I’m sure when you look into these people, they claim to be defending the honour of the Prophet. Was their lifestyle commensurate with people who the love of the prophet, peace be on him?

"You’ll find it wasn't. It’s not just the love of the Prophet which caused this action. It’s a lot more.

"This is always taken out of the discussion and they just focus on the cartoons and it’s just doing a disservice to the reality of how 1.4 billion Muslims around the world feel."

Clegg felt the need to to interrupt, saying: "I cannot express to you how strongly I disagree with you. There can be no excuse, no reason, no explanation.

"They have killed cartoonists who have done nothing more than drawings which they so happen to find offensive.

"Here’s the bottom line, Omar, at the end of the day in a free society people have to be free to offend each other. You cannot have freedom unless people are free to offend each other. We have no right not to be offended.

"That fundamental principle of being free to offend people - and not saying somehow that you have a right not be offended in a democratic, open society such as ours is exactly what was under threat by these murderous barbarians.

"To even suggest, Omar, that there is a rationale, an explanation, a motive that somehow absolves them or sheds greater light on such a horrific, cold hearted, cowardly act, I find outrageous."

After thoroughly schooling the caller, the Deputy PM went on to slam Nigel Farage for attempting to score political points from the massacre.

Cheers

[LouisLitt]

Its nothing to do with respecting any made up bullshit or anything remotely like that, its about respecting people and religion is a very important thing to many many people in this world. If you ever had to work in a multicultural group you might understand not respecting peoples religion can land you in real hot water in the professional world

No Bazz, I dont think you realise how terrible your attitude is, to be honest

I have read your posts for years and I fully understand where you are coming from, hell I even agree with you mostly but I choose to keep my opinions to myself because I don't want to offend people for no good reason

You have massive faith in science despite having no real experience or education in the subject, without the mathematical foundations you can only believe in a very similar way that people believe in their god, yet its all so lacking and full of holes. There are basic everyday things that you can observe which have no explanation or expression its surprising how many things are like this.

I love science Baz but it leaves so much unaccounted for and thats why there will always be a place for religion and the like because at the end of the day no one can ever know for sure how its all here, the only definite is that its all very strange indeed

Killing people has got nothing to do with any religion whatsoever so your talking daft

That says a lot to me Baz, think about it

I am my own person on here, I mostly post in the DIY section because thats me, I don't go around looking for brownie points and correct me if I am wrong Baz but we have had nothing but a pleasent experience when interacting on here in the past and I haven't posted in a single one of the many religion threads. I have no grudge towards you at all

I would be lieing if I said offended but last night when you called religion a myth that was what spured me to post because in the real world calling someones religion a myth is not nice, it looks very arrogant and you can argue it but thats the facts

So think about this Baz after all the shit on here over religion how do you feel about me a person who shares similar beliefs to yourself finds your attitude to religion upsetting, its got nothing to do with get him mentality or because you have upset my mate, I think you have a terrible attitude towards religion on these boards and I honestly believe it would be a little bit of a better place if you learnt to show a litle respect. Thats all I am saying baz

Godel even proved to you god does exist, what more do you want

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%F6del%27s_ontological_proof

so i guess you think charlie hesbo were wrong to print those cartoons aswell then?

Why should bazzard not call religions a myth if he thinks that they are?

[NegativeCreep]

@@Davey Jones

You should post more

You have massive faith in science ...

Faith and related concepts have no place in science. They are not required.

I love science Baz but it leaves so much unaccounted for and thats why there will always be a place for religion and the like because at the end of the day no one can ever know for sure how its all here, the only definite is that its all very strange indeed

The map is not the territory. Leaving science aside, even our perceptual systems cannot 'account for everything' - so the thing is, why don't people fill in the gaps with their own personal mythologies? Why believe wholesale what someone else tells you? Both parties will have the same amount of evidence for their stories.

Furthermore, are you really suggesting that I have a right to be offended if someone else calls it what it is, a personal mythology?

And none of this changes just because I can get other people to believe in my personal mythology.

Godel even proved to you god does exist, what more do you want

Not quite. Replace 'invisible pink unicorn' with 'God-like' in the theorem ...

NC

[Guest bazzad9]

Killing people has got nothing to do with any religion whatsoever so your talking daft

straw man noted

it has everything to do with it if they kill in the name of there religion or because they think it tells them to (which it does by the way)

ive gone to great lenghts to make a distinction between those that do and those that dont .....pretty much my focus in this thread

so again you tell me where i said this in this thread where i said religion is the cause