Zionist.........

[Arnold Layne]

it was promised to them in scriptures ages ago. i'm not %100 but i don't think it was populated before the israelites migrated there?

Oh dear! A short lesson in Old Testament history:

The Old Testament narrates how Yahweh (God) gave Israel the land (already richly and diversely populated), with the command that they exterminate every living thing within it. This was nothing other than a divinely ordered mass genocide, which in the end the people of Israel failed to carry through. This angered Yahweh, who sent prophets of doom to warn "His people", but still Israel failed to kill "every living thing" that God had ordered destroyed. So he destroyed Israel, sending them into "captivity". The Divine command to kill every living thing is referred to as "The Ban", a convenient way of hiding the fact that it was nothing other than genocide. Total genocide. The word "Ban" refers, I think, to the way in which the genocide is ordered, as a way of insuring the purity of Israel's Religion; Yahweh did not want Israel mingling with the religions of the people in the land, such a mingling he "Banned"... and so the phrase "The ban" came into being.

Christians clinging to a doctrine of Inerrant Scripture must find a way of explaining this. In all my theological studies I have yet to find a half decent explanation as to why god ordered this genocide.

Mostly I find that what you get is a demonising of the people in the land, as if their "bad" religion was ground sufficient to kill them and steal their homelands. One scholar, I forget who, even ventured the notion that the Canaanites were so riddled with clap and pox they had to be destroyed for their own good. That's nice!

[tengreenfingers]

Arnold - I'm pretty sure they weren't commanded to kill every living thing.

Weren't they commanded to kill every canaanite. The non-canaanite (or perhaps, the less-sinful) tribes were to be offered surrender and not be mistreated.

The genocide was to be so complete for no reason so simple as bad religion. Look at the story of Sodom... the men came out of the city and asked to "know" (given the context of Lot's counteroffer I don't think this was just a polite hello - more like the more euphemistic "know" and given the threats levelled, that should read "rape") the visitors. Complete "wickedness" (Deu9:4-5) and Guilt (Gen15:16) being the sins of Canaan.

Eze16:49-50 gives a bit more context, though after the fact. Arrogance, gluttony, uncaring about others, unhelping of the poor and needy AND "bad religion".

Take also as context the part (running out of the will to chase up references) where the destruction of Canaan is put off for a few generations as things weren't yet so bad that they warranted complete destruction.

As per ususal, I acknowledge that you've got FAR deeper knowledge on this than I, and I'm happy to stand corrected on any errors, but I think the picture you paint of genocide due to not wanting religions to mix is somewhat simplistic.

EDITED to correct a typo and make things slightly less emphatic at the start.

Edited January 23, 2013 by tengreenfingers

[weedshark]

[Eddiesilence]

Oh dear! A short lesson in Old Testament history:

The Old Testament narrates how Yahweh (God) gave Israel the land (already richly and diversely populated), with the command that they exterminate every living thing within it. This was nothing other than a divinely ordered mass genocide...

Yes, but I bet you've never met a Canaanite or you'd be with the Israelites. They were positively a toilet of a race.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Eddiesilence

[Ishmael]

But which son did Abraham (who was given Israel by God) then promise the land of Israel ishmael or isaac thats the million dollar question.

well ishmael didn't fucking get it I know that much

[Boojum]

But in all fairness I'll call you Ishmael anyway

[Arnold Layne]

Yes, but I bet you've never met a Canaanite or you'd be with the Israelites. They were positively a toilet of a race.

That's as maybe, but it doesn't justify genocide. Unless you be called GW Bush, maybe?

[Eddiesilence]

That's as maybe, but it doesn't justify genocide. Unless you be called GW Bush, maybe?

You just wait until Johnny Canaanite moves in next door to you, shags your wife, steals your job, eats your dog, and then boils your children for his special ceremonial bread.

And they smell of garlic too. And they talk funny. And they wear stupid hats.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Eddiesilence

[splifi]

well ishmael didn't fucking get it I know that much

Ah but Ishmael did get saudi arabia :wink:

[Arnold Layne]

OMG!!! Not stupid hats! Right, where's my AK47, I'm with you Yahweh!

Thanks for converting me, Eddie!

[Ishmael]

Ah but Ishmael did get saudi arabia :wink:

Yep, and swapped it for a Packard in 1937. Never looked back.

[powerband]

Ya know, I knew it hit religion but oddly word association says "Bob Marley" to me when I hear that word "Zionism"

And although I think I understand the explanations, I still feel lost..... Perhaps I should visit 420 prior to my thought provoking spliffs

Thank you x

[Nocturnal]

Ya know, I knew it hit religion but oddly word association says "Bob Marley" to me when I hear that word "Zionism"

From the wiki page for "Zion":

Anti-slavery symbolism

The Jewish longing for Zion, starting with the deportation and enslavement of Jews during the Babylonian captivity, was adopted as a metaphor by Christian Black slaves in the United States, and after the Civil War by blacks who were still oppressed. Thus, Zion symbolizes a longing by wandering peoples for a safe homeland. This could be an actual place such as Ethiopia for Rastafarians or Israel for some of the Igbos in Nigeria for example. For others, it has taken on a more spiritual meaning—a safe spiritual homeland, like in heaven, or a kind of peace of mind in one's present life.

Usage by the Rastafari movement

In the Rastafari movement, "Zion" stands for a utopian place of unity, peace and freedom, as opposed to "Babylon", the oppressing and exploiting system of the western world and a place of evil.

For Rastafarians, Zion is to be found in Africa, and more specifically in Ethiopia, where the term is also in use. Some Rastas believe themselves to represent the real Children of Israel in modern times, and their goal is to repatriate to Africa, or to Zion. Rasta reggae is peppered with references to Zion; among the best-known examples are the Bob Marley songs "Zion Train", "Iron Lion Zion",

[BiPolar Dave]

William Hague.

[Ineedweed]

The zionists were out again this week helping to give ordinary Jews a bad name and fuel or start antisemitsm where none existed. This time it was an attack on free speech in the form of a cartoon depicting Benjamin Netanyahu building a wall with blood red mortar. I have never witnessed anti semitsm (nobody I grew up with knows anything about religion or have knowingly met a jew) but I'm betting anti semistsm will become big again soon as I now see why anti semitism has existed throughout history and who in the jewish community have been an ongoing cause of it. Bloody powerful extremists.

"Jewish community leaders were particularly disturbed by parallels they saw between the red-tinged drawing and historical anti-Semitic propaganda — in particular the theme of “blood libel,” the twisted but persistent myth that Jews secretly use human blood in their religious rituals.

Their anger was heightened by the fact that the cartoon was published on a day meant to commemorate the communities destroyed by the Nazis and their allies in the mid-20th century.

The Board of Deputies of British Jews, which represents the country’s roughly 265,000-strong Jewish community, said it had lodged a complaint with the U.K. press watchdog.

The deputies said in a statement that the depiction of a Jewish leader using blood for mortar “is shockingly reminiscent of the blood libel imagery more usually found in parts of the virulently anti-Semitic Arab press.” Israel’s ambassador to Britain echoed the statement, while the speaker of Israel’s parliament, Reuven Rivlin, wrote to his U.K. counterpart to express “extreme outrage.”

I'd urge ordinary jews (like muslims have been urged to do) to speak out against powerful and/or extremist members of their community who give them a bad name.