Question for any science/physicists here.

[ratdog]

This is the whole point of the thread nop, Imagine!

Yes & I have imagined a superior solution that is actually possible to build from existing tech, ..how has your imagination contributed to this thread ratdog?

A superior solution? really, that`s not how i see it, as bazzad says, you solution was a processing machine not a prediction machine, a prediction machine would need far more info than you could ever give it imo, and as far as my imagination goes i was letting bazzad reason with you so as not to make the thread more convoluted than it was getting

e2a, also if you read the thread you`ll see my other contributions, sorry if it`s not good enough :wink:

Edited September 2, 2012 by ratdog

[Guest bazzad9]

This is the whole point of the thread nop, Imagine!

Yes & I have imagined a superior solution that is actually possible to build from existing tech, ..how has your imagination contributed to this thread ratdog?

A superior solution? really, that`s not how i see it, as bazzad says, you solution was a processing machine not a prediction machine, a prediction machine would need far more info than you could ever give it imo, and as far as my imagination goes i was letting bazzad reason with you so as not to make the thread more convoluted than it was getting

crack on ratdog ,ive given up

see if you can explain it clearer than i have

my way clearly isnt clear enough

[ratdog]

crack on ratdog ,ive given up

see if you can explain it clearer than i have

my way clearly isnt clear enough

I don`t think i can really add much to all you have already said mate, and seeing as it`s a hypothetical machine then i think it`s going to be hard until we understand that it would need to know all possible outcomes of all possible atoms in all kinds of experiments in the known universe to predict anything of value, and tbh it might take a while

[wildbill]

I think we still have an enormous range of small choices, just often not the ones we would want.

But as i said earlier, do small choices really count?, if we were truly deterministic we could control a large portion of our lives, as it stands we do not imo

Sorry, I missed the before. I think I know what you mean. But proofs & mathematics are about absolutes, either we can predict exactly or we can't. Reality is where the grey areas start appearing.

just often not the ones we would want.

I hear you. I'm yet to hear Heather Graham ask, "before we get down to it, would you like to chop or shall I?"....

Not to my taste, but she would make for a jazzy month or two. I like them dark & unusual .

To explain, I'm not that well at the mo. So keeping up with this discussion is beyond my capabilities tbh.

But I am interested, and have used LaPlace transforms before. If it is the same guy, I want whatever he was smoking .

[nop]

im giving up nop

yes but

seems like your struggling to predict yourself, never mind an entire Universe

[ratdog]

im giving up nop

yes but

seems like your struggling to predict yourself, never mind an entire Universe

Cutting up posts to make yourself look good is a big fail imo

[nop]

A superior solution? really,

well its available now and does exactly the same thing ...instead of 'maybe we can build it in the future' ..so not really difficult to be superior

e2a, also if you read the thread you`ll see my other contributions, sorry if it`s not good enough :wink:

yes I read those puppies & had a good ol chortle ..not much imagination involved though mainly misunderstandings of basic science ..what was it again something about living things not being part of the Universe

[Guest bazzad9]

im giving up nop

yes but

seems like your struggling to predict yourself, never mind an entire Universe

no i just cant make it any simpler for you

even the definition of prediction seems beyond your grasp

going by your amazing superior solution that predicts events after they have happened ,very handy machine for removing randomness from a coin toss

its you thats not grasping it mate

[nop]

yes but your superior solution isnt the solution to the proposed problem

because it doesnt predict the outcome of a coin toss in real time ,so it doesnt change our perspective of randomness

prediction as in pre outcome as in before the coin has landed

to change from randomness requires a prediction ,your superior solution doesnt do this ,so is irrelevant to the topic

once more for the hard of thinking...who knows maybe one day you will get it

from the pov of the processing machine the event has not happened and it does not know the outcome, therefore it is a prediction ...the actual time 4:50pm etc is irrelevant to a computer program

as previously said..

the processing machine has no concept of real time or recorded data ..data is data ..the input data is identical in both cases therefore the output( prediction ) will be identical in both cases

Edited September 2, 2012 by nop

[nop]

Cutting up posts to make yourself look good is a big fail imo

repping posts as a substitute for a coherent argument is an even bigger fail imo

face it ratdog this thread is way over your head ..don't over reach it makes you look silly

you solution was a processing machine not a prediction machine,

every computer in existence is a processing machine :: ..doooh

Edited September 2, 2012 by nop

[Guest bazzad9]

once more for the hard of thinking...who knows maybe one day you will get it

from the pov of the processing machine the event has not happened and it does not know the outcome, therefore it is a prediction ...the actual time 4:50pm etc is irrelevant to a computer program

as previously said..

the processing machine has no concept of real time or recorded data ..data is data ..the input data is identical in both cases therefore the output( prediction ) will be identical in both cases

ill try one more time

to us a coin flip is a random event because we dont have the technology to determine the outcome in real time ,ie a prediction

if we did have the technology say as an app in a smartphone it would change from our viewpoint of a random coin flip to a predictable event

your machine does not do this ,so it does not change how we view a coin flip as random

even if your machine calculated a nano second after the event it would still not be predicting it because the coin has landed and we can see the actual result

so untill the coin landed the event to us was random

if we could build my phone app that calculated before the coin landed it would no longer be a random event ,we know the outcome

put it this way if we had 1million pound bet on a single coin toss your machine would not help you predict the outcome ,you sit after with the video and work out why it landed the way it did but at the time of the event the coin toss would still be random and fair for both players

with my machine that would look at all the variables as the coin left the hand and calculate where the coin will land ,giving be a prediction of the outcome and me winning the money everytime

it would then not be a random coin toss ,i would know the answer of heads or tails before the coin came to rest

removing the randomness we see as we are in tossing coins ,your machine would have no effect on this

[ratdog]

so not really difficult to be superior

I think you mean "feel" mate

what was it again something about living things not being part of the Universe

Different to non living things mate, i think a child of three can see the difference :wink:

repping posts as a substitute for a coherent argument is an even bigger fail imo

Ah, you think you are right and Bazzad is wrong good luck with that

face it ratdog this thread is way over your head ..don't over reach it makes you look silly

I`m doing just fine mate, i haven`t really needed to add the Baazad`s posts so i didn`t

every computer in existence is a processing machine :: ..doooh

You said they could predict but you meant process, you are getting confused and sliding into insults quite rapidly, are you hungover/coming down by any chance?

[Guest Rex Mundi]

Some people arguing against Determinism, that, if correct, shows we have no freewill, will use Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle.

But if HUP is false... what then?