tengreenfingers Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) Let's put it this way. So far we have: Groups like the Global Commission on Drug Policy who basically say "we need a different approach". CLEAR who present a respectable face but come up with some of the worst, most draconian alternative models. NORML-UK who seem to still be finding their feet. Much promise but nothing so tangible yet - give them time, I'm sure - but still. Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs who's main argument is to take "an evidence based approach" and to consider "relative harms". Nutt refers to possible models but nothing concrete in terms of policy outlines. There's nobody actually putting a workable, non-draconian plan for the future into the hands of politicians. There's really no good reason for that. Edited July 20, 2012 by tengreenfingers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesmokingjacket Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 There's nobody actually putting a workable, non-draconian plan for the future into the hands of politicians. There's really no good reason for that. dude the politicians are the one who are supposed to make the plan for us ,they are our servents thats their job ,they are not doing there job they have broken their trust agreement with us ,this needs to be sorted first before anything can be changed ,in me opinion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glezga Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 i just want to grow it like veg, no fear of prosecution. stand outside a bar and have a J instead of a fag, buy or trade my seeds online if i fancy a different strain. maybe be able to sell it just like selling my own veg (not that i do). all the legalisation etc talk dusnt matter to me, i get it and would be better than illegal, horses for courses... aye im stoned. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
distracted Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) OK how about this, it may come across as a selfish campaign stance but it is a low hanging fruit so I'm interested in seeing what is said: keep it completely under the existing setup were legal cultivation and possession requires a home office licence, but lobby for the creation of a new class of home office licence to grow and possess cannabis for personal use with lower legal requirements, no CRB etc in keeping with the limited extent of the licence. Then anyone who wants one for free, or for a nominal fee can have one but it is restricted to none commercial quantities and prohibits selling..... nothing needs changing using that argument, home growers are just asking for the same rights as pharma companies currently enjoy but just for personal use and not for profit... with a valid licence issued by the home office we would be free to grow and own cannabis... not to sell it though or buy it and nothing has to be changed legally, they even already have an online application portal for licences, a department that deals with this, etc just an alternative idea to ponder Edited July 20, 2012 by distracted 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tengreenfingers Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 dude the politicians are the one who are supposed to make the plan for us ,they are our servents thats their job ,they are not doing there job they have broken their trust agreement with us ,this needs to be sorted first before anything can be changed ,in me opinion They are supposed to, but they are not. We can wait from them to catch up with the real world or actually come up with something ourselves. We are all WAY ahead of politicians on the cannabis issue. We shouldn't be trusting people who want to stamp out all use to come up with a just system that doesn't even pretend to achieve that. OK how about this, it may come across as a selfish campaign stance but it is a low hanging fruit so I'm interested in seeing what is said: keep it completely under the existing setup were legal cultivation and possession requires a home office licence, but lobby for the creation of a new class of home office licence to grow and possess cannabis for personal use with lower legal requirements, no CRB etc in keeping with the limited extent of the licence. Then anyone who wants one for free, or for a nominal fee can have one but it is restricted to none commercial quantities and prohibits selling..... nothing needs changing using that argument, home growers are just asking for the same rights as pharma companies currently enjoy but just for personal use and not for profit... with a valid licence issued by the home office we would be free to grow and own cannabis... not to sell it though or buy it and nothing has to be changed legally, they even already have an online application portal for licences, a department that deals with this, etc just an alternative idea to ponder Maybe, problem is (I believe) Hemcore deal with the licences and they only generally licence for those who agree to sell all their hemp fibre to them for horse bedding. The current setup is part of the problem. Same question applies - "how?" Let's get into some specifics rather than overviews of ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkyJazzJesus Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 whats harder, removing/revoking a law or making a whole set of new ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
distracted Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) Maybe, problem is (I believe) Hemcore deal with the licences and they only generally licence for those who agree to sell all their hemp fibre to them for horse bedding. The current setup is part of the problem. Same question applies - "how?" Let's get into some specifics rather than overviews of ideas. the home office deal with the licences for high THC cannabis so for pharma or researcher that is who they approach I believe, as I said there is a home office online application portal, the trouble is a class of licence for home use doesn't exist... and such a licence would have to be created through political will and political will will only change if they get wind of a change in public will, for that education is the key but your HOW? is a screaming obstacle How? for that particular aim then the leverage points are getting an acceptance that cannabis is beneficial for medical use which is a given seeing at the UK government has granted patents to that effect and allows the NHS to administer preparations, and then pushing for a fair system were citizens can get the same rights as companies profiteering from cannabis... maybe an alternative medicine approach would work, but that risks the whole thing steering into medical only and that has it's own problems I don't think you can really get into specifics of "how" unless you decide on what you want.... for example, a very tunnelled and probably stupid argument for a small scale production licence for say 4 plants, could be that you want to research the effects of cannabis on yourself, as you have a curiosity, and that restricting legal access to cannabis to just academics is depriving you of enjoying the academic freedom that they enjoy and also creating a situation were you as a free individual is also being deprived of the right to discover and then possibly patent a medical benefit of cannabis, thereby monopolising cannabis research in favour of a few individuals, rather than the entire UK population. Intellectual research and the ability to create IP in any field is everyones right and not just the right of a handful of commercial and academic institutions protected and enabled by the government... or you could use a medical argument citing the fact that it has known and government recognised medical uses and you want a licence to prepare your own under licence outside patent restrictions as the plant is not patented I don't know really, I get a moment of spark with this issue then the futility washes over every time... the best bet is probable just to carry on what we are doing, growing our own and playing cat and mouse with the law, it is the law enforcement and judicial that seemingly doesn't want cannabis to be grown at home, if the government was that bothered they would ban seed sale and possession tomorrow along with drug paraphernalia but they don't because they don't want to stir it up.... maybe campaign for the recognition of alcohol as the dangerous drug it is and a even handed interpretation of the misuse of drugs act and it's classification as B or A that would certainly upset the piggies in their favourite watering hole on a friday night Edited July 20, 2012 by distracted 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddam Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Distracted has hit the nail on the head imo, I've been pondering writing to Theresa May and asking her why the Home Office doesn't issue 1,000,000 medical licences for 200 quid each? Would give her 200 million to throw at their current 'staffing problems' and potentially save the economy 38 billion in custodial costs. A medical licence wouldn't require any law changes and would be a great first step to legalisation/de-criminalisation.. opening up access to all those suffering because their PCT won't support Shativex prescriptions. The HO website is full of BS about equality but it definitely seems some people are more equal than others. Interesting thread guys. Saddam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
distracted Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 it certainly isn't my nail Saddam, it's one that has been rusting in the minds of many I'd say. but it is a decent enough argument to cherry pic out the law enforcement savings, etc and bundle them up just don't mention the T word :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tengreenfingers Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 The problem is, we have a group that are actively pushing not only "the T word" but also some terribly draconian rules and regulations. Unless we come up with a more workable proposal that gives us the kind of liberty we want and beat them to the punch we will end up with something nasty when legalisation finally comes around. Like them or not, that group is getting attention and making waves. They keep coming up with variations on the draconian, highly restricted theme and I think if we don't get something worthwhile put together as an alternative, when the debate starts in earnest the legalisation side will basically start at that level and be negotiated down by the other side. It's a bad place to start and unless we come up with something better we're basically going to be stuck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tengreenfingers Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Growers licences were the beginning of prohibition of cannabis in America. The Marijuana Tax Act. Get a permit, pay the tax ($1 IIRC) and away you go... then they didn't issue any. If growing needs a licence here there's no effort at all to recriminalise all growing after the fact by simply refusing to issue licences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
distracted Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I get what you are saying but isn't NORML UK the way to counteract that particular carbuncle on the face of cannabis activism? As former members are behind it they have the inside track Didn't one of the US states get state recognised legalisation through a failed licence issue they cooked up so they could appropriate funds from drug dealers without state licences? my memory is hazy but pretty sure it back fired stupendously for one of the states as people started to buy licences... as I say a hazy memory If growing needs a licence here there's no effort at all to recriminalise all growing after the fact by simply refusing to issue licences. Sorry but I can't understand that sentence, I'm medicated and particularly dumb this week but I can't get my head around what you mean (sorry ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tengreenfingers Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 I get what you are saying but isn't NORML UK the way to counteract that particular carbuncle on the face of cannabis activism? As former members are behind it they have the inside track Maybe NORML-UK are the way... but we still need to figure out a counter-proposal to go up against the tax and stamp-it-into-the-ground proposals said group churn out. If growing needs a licence here there's no effort at all to recriminalise all growing after the fact by simply refusing to issue licences. Sorry but I can't understand that sentence, I'm medicated and particularly dumb this week but I can't get my head around what you mean (sorry ) Simply put: In the USA they banned cannabis by requiring grow licences and then refusing to issue them. If we get a licenced grow system in the UK it would be trivial for them to ban growing later. Same as America. Just stop issuing licences and everyone has to stop growing... and anyone who doesn't stop growing they'll probably face harsher penalties than now as their grow is not only illegal but unlicenced too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
distracted Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 as I was trying to recall clearly before I am pretty sure that in one state they had a problem with under state law not being able to seize the proceeds of drug dealing, so they came up with a licence system, the ruse being that when they busted people then they could grab the cash as proceeds from not being licensed trade, then people started to apply for licences so the the police just rolled over the addresses of the new licence holders to be confronted with state issues licences and a whopping big catch-22... maybe this is the same thing you are on about and they just stopped issuing licenses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tengreenfingers Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Not entirely sure if it's the same or not, but either way licensed production is inherently problematic. I've pretty much given up on achieving the original point of this thread though, that of coming up with better proposals than the dross being pushed at the moment. If anyone fancies getting stuck in and working together to come up with something, let me know. I'd be interested in working on a proposal but not alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now