distracted Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 John Frum is a cargo religion based it is thought on a US GI that visited in WWII, the cult has now fractioned into I seem to remember 3 different interpretations with theological differences splinters them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawberry Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 have you never wished something would turn out a particular way and projected out a plee? a please let this be true/ not be true/ turn out the way I want? even without a diety, ancestor, etc to plee to is it any different to prayer with it's focus? I thing we all do that, we cross our fingers and hope in all cultures, some is focussed to a deity some not, but the hope is universal isn't it? if hope is universal and pleas are universal then religious hope and pleas might just be a formalised form of human nature? I play a lot of backgammon. I know the odds pretty well. There is nothing quite like the feeling of taking a couple of quid from someone with a throw that has a chance slightly above 5%. When it's really down to one lucky throw to turn an almost certain heavy defeat into an unlikely win, it's a sort of tradition (at least with the Greeks and Turks I tend to play) to make a bit of a song and dance about it. Everyone has their own little thing, blowing on the dice, talking to their god, touching their lucky keepsake, or banging out their mantra. Confirmation bias then kicks in. If someone plays 1,000 games and has good memories of winning a game with a couple of consecutive lucky dice throws they tend to remember everything about what they were wearing and doing at the time, except perhaps how often they did the same without success. Those three wins in a thousand games will keep them practicing their superstitions for the rest of their lives. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest daviie Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Hmm I wonder when prayers stop being glorifying and thankful, and became a pleading, I suspect round about the time religion became a tool of state-dom, eastern traditions seem more glorifiers than requesters. im wondering if the use of actual church buildings had a part in it,when people worshipped in there home it was a lot cheaper than a church even a small one would have to fund its own up keep ,i wonder if prayers where perhaps over sold to pay for these buildings pure guesswork i have no real theory Speaking to a Muslim guy the other day and and he mentioned he got up at 4.30, when I asked him why he said he goes to the mosque. I know the one he means a grotty little former corner shop. I then asked him how many turn up and he says sometimes only one other. I can understand that, something is added when two or more people gather, I'm sure it's exactly what the bible describes about when two or more of you gather, I will come among you. It even works when it's non religious, as in a common interest. Something greater than the individual parts is achieved. Hence dedicated church buildings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bazzad9 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I can understand that, something is added when two or more people gather, I'm sure it's exactly what the bible describes about when two or more of you gather, I will come among you. It even works when it's non religious, as in a common interest. Something greater than the individual parts is achieved. Hence dedicated church buildings. i agree mate but my coment was more about how prayer had possibly changed at the time rather than why churches came about but yeah its natural for people of like minds to want to meet and form clubs churches communities etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) Church buildings are, of course, the very opposite of what the New Testament is all about. The word "Church" is a simple word, used to describe any gathering of people for a purpose. A market, a public debate, a religious assembly were all called "Church", or "Ecclesia" ~ as it is in the Greek. Its a people word, not a building word. For Jesus, those who "follow" him, they are the "Ecclesia", "The Church". Not a building, but a group of individuals. Modern day "Christianity" is in fact the very Anti-Christ, nothing more or less than that. Heretical to the real message of Jesus, and a false religion which leads all astray who enter into it. If you have an interest in the message of Jesus, that's all that's required. Anything extra is man made, misleading control-freakery. God looks upon the heart of those who pray, not the buildings they inhabit, not the creeds they get tangled up in, and not the robes they wear or the incense they burn. Liturgy, church buildings, creeds and denominations are so far removed from the Message, that I consider them (personally) to be the Devil's work to distract from the real message. Prayer = a simple expression of the heart, God-wards. It does not even need to be verbal. Sincerity of heart is the stamped envelope that takes things to God, not fancy language, not priests and certainly not creeds and incantations. I'll get off my soap-box now! Sermon/rant over.... sorry, habits of a lifetime are so very hard to leave behind Edited June 2, 2012 by Arnold Layne 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bazzad9 Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) keep the rants coming arnold i find them interesting i must admit as a child i could never understand the need for all the stuff that goes with modern religion ,i didnt really have any understanding and the only thing i new about religion was from school ,the bible storys etc ,i could never link the bible storys id heard with these big gold laden buildings with all the clothes and stuff ,im not sure it was a long time ago but i dont think i linked the two as being the same thing . from what i have read about jesus he was a simple humble man who was all about helping others i just dont see that with a lot of organised churches it would seem to me with my little knowledge following the teachings of jesus is far removed from following an organised church have a good day arnold Edited June 2, 2012 by bazzad9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no2schwag Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I think prayer and meditation and such can probably be useful ways for focusing your mind, some kind of mental conjuring trick if you will. My personal theory is religions adopted this humanistic practice and hijacked it. Good OP, not much to add to it apart from that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bond Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 We all need someone to look up too, and I would go so far as to say we all need someone to answer too. The sheer vastness of the universe and the complexity of life makes us question many things. To have a God is a good thing, faith and hope are the key elements of our existence on earth and without them we wouldn't be here today, I'd rather believe in God than believe in nothing... Peace to all.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddiesilence Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) We all need someone to look up too, and I would go so far as to say we all need someone to answer too. I don't think I do. The sheer vastness of the universe and the complexity of life makes us question many things. To have a God is a good thing, faith and hope are the key elements of our existence on earth and without them we wouldn't be here today, I'd rather believe in God than believe in nothing... Peace to all.. Is it a toss-up between believing in God or believing in nothing? Is that really the only choice we have? I have no belief in the supernatural, yet I am faithful and hopeful. Could it be that I have faith and hope because I am human? Is it really necessary to postulate a God to explain why I am a faithful, hopeful person? Edited June 10, 2012 by Eddiesilence 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bond Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 We all need someone to look up too, and I would go so far as to say we all need someone to answer too. I don't think I do. The sheer vastness of the universe and the complexity of life makes us question many things. To have a God is a good thing, faith and hope are the key elements of our existence on earth and without them we wouldn't be here today, I'd rather believe in God than believe in nothing... Peace to all.. Is it a toss-up between believing in God or believing in nothing? Is that really the only choice we have? I have no belief in the supernatural, yet I am faithful and hopeful. Could it be that I have faith and hope because I am human? Is it really necessary to postulate a God to explain why I am a faithful, hopeful person? Not at all. We choose want we want to choose. I just believe that there is more in this world than just what we see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hir Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I'm praying England switch on tomorrow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bond Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I'm praying England switch on tomorrow. Like I said, Hope keeps us alive, HeHeHe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grandad Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 when ever i was in bad trouble the only words to come out of my mouth, mum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddiesilence Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) I have no belief in the supernatural, yet I am faithful and hopeful. Could it be that I have faith and hope because I am human? Is it really necessary to postulate a God to explain why I am a faithful, hopeful person? Not at all. We choose want we want to choose. I just believe that there is more in this world than just what we see. It isn't always a choice - nobody knowingly joins a cult. As Pierre Joseph Proudhon said of his former Catholicism: "Was there never a seduction?" That manipulation is the chief problem I have with religion. Edited June 10, 2012 by Eddiesilence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bond Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I have no belief in the supernatural, yet I am faithful and hopeful. Could it be that I have faith and hope because I am human? Is it really necessary to postulate a God to explain why I am a faithful, hopeful person? Not at all. We choose want we want to choose. I just believe that there is more in this world than just what we see. It isn't always a choice - nobody knowingly joins a cult. As Pierre Joseph Proudhon said of his former Catholicism: "Was there never a seduction?" That manipulation is the chief problem I have with religion. Nobody ever knowingly joins a cult? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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