lovin' Mary Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Hi guys I'm watching crime and punishment on the BBC and they are discussing the death penalty! I cant believe in this day and age we are still discussing it! Surely its never coming back and i dont know many people who are for it. Is this just another subject being whipped up by the media? Or are there people out there that think we should bring this outdated practice back? Just thought i'd see what the general view is on 420. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cursed Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Yes there are people who subscribe to the eye for an eye way of thinking, we have some members on this forum who believe that. It's been discussed a couple of times since I've been here and it usually gets a little heated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~nobody~ Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I think there are arguments for it on a practical level in the sense that it would be cheaper for society to execute certain criminals than keep them in prison indefinitely. When you then use people like Brady, Huntley, the Wests etc as examples it's easy to see how you could sway any undecided Heil readers. Just to clarify, I'm against it. I'm not surprised that it's still up for debate though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cf Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Look at the reality in countries where it is on the menu. The US, a supposedly developed and civilized country, seems to execute a lot of poor mentally ill, often learning disabled, victims of terrible abuse. Usually to the sound of a braying pack of other rather poor uneducated folk and the press. There are many worse examples around the world. I'm against it btw , like ~nobody~ I can see the attraction of doing away with people who commit terrible crimes apparently without feelings of any sort rather than indefinite incarceration but I would need to see an example of a country where it works before I even start to debate the issue. Its not a deterrent, no one pauses before slicing up their latest victim and thinks to themselves "you know what , I'd better not do this crime coz if it comes on top I'm gonna be on death row" do they? So its a mix of revenge and warehousing that keeps these counties killing prisoners. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grooving Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 As soon as the state murders just one wrongly-convicted person the argument for capital punishment crumbles. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hir Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 The vast majority of people are for the death penalty, which is why we never have a referendum about it. When ever a polling company is commissioned to do a random survey on this subject then the results are pretty consistent, 70% of the British public would vote for the return of the death penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forest dog Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Murder is murder in my book. Being sanctioned by the State doesn't make it ok. Same as war really. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyPage Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 The vast majority of people are for the death penalty, which is why we never have a referendum about it. When ever a polling company is commissioned to do a random survey on this subject then the results are pretty consistent, 70% of the British public would vote for the return of the death penalty. Polls like that are pretty useless. I refer you to the "Yes Minister" scene where Sir Humphrey demonstrates how to get diametrically opposing results by leading the respondent down a logical path. There was - famously - a royal commission into the death penalty in the 1950s. What is less know is *why* there was. The home office had noticed that juries were starting to get reluctant to vote guilty, if there was a chance the convicted would be hanged. The royal commission led to a reduction in capital offences, but people were starting to feel uneasy about executions. Eventually the government allowed Silverman a private members bill, out of a fear that one day an obviously guilty murdered would go free, because a jury refused to convict. It's a rare case of public sentiment actually changing something. You get the rent-a-rabble, with their "it's DNA innit ?" justification for capital punishment, but as always, it's the people who challenge the status quo are the newsworthy ones. Certainly, for my part, if I were to serve on a jury, in a case where there was a possibility the convicted would be executed, then I would simply vote not guilty - regardless of the evidence. It would only take 3 people like that in the jury pool, and they would get off. The system used in (some states) the US, where *juries* can decide the verdict would not appease me. I am morally opposed to the death penalty. But even if I weren't, the fact it can never be applied evenly (we will always have reprieves) should mean it has no place in the criminal justice system. Just look at how it has been used as a political tool WITHIN LIVING MEMORY. I urge anyone who supports capital punishment to look at the cases of Bentley (who was hanged to "send a message"), Ellis (ditto), and Evans (whose hanging allowed Christie to commit more murders). Then look at all the miscarriages of justice SINCE the death penalty was abolished. I posted the storya while back of Stefan Kiszko, and at least one poster said it moved them to tears. Who here, has enough faith in our criminal justice system, to allow it the power of the ultimate sanction ? I'm not squeamish. I have no problem, if the police need to shoot a suspect who poses a real and present danger to society. But I can't begin to describe my abhorrence at the idea of coldly, calculatingly, putting a person to death. It's barbaric, and it brutalises society. 23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I think you are preaching to the converted on here JimmyPage I'm pretty sure most of us are against the death penalty but I certainly don't think thats the case for the majority of the people in the UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Top post Jimmy old mate, I agree with every word of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer boy Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 im going to go againt to flow and say i would like to see the death penalty back. only for people that there is no doubt about them being guilty of serten cold blooded murders . i also have several other criteria but its very long winded and would take me a long time to type it peace out farmer boy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyPage Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 im going to go againt to flow and say i would like to see the death penalty back. only for people that there is no doubt about them being guilty of serten cold blooded murders . i also have several other criteria but its very long winded and would take me a long time to type it peace out farmer boy There was no doubt Stefan Kizko was guilty - until he was innocent. Or the Birmingham 6, or Guildford 4. And it's worth bearing in mind that if we *had* executed them, then there would have been much less interest in getting to the truth. No system man can devise is possible of perfection. It is axiomatic that there WILL be cases where an innocent man is executed. And I do not want that blood on my conscience - not in my name. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyPage Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I think you are preaching to the converted on here JimmyPage I'm pretty sure most of us are against the death penalty but I certainly don't think thats the case for the majority of the people in the UK "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cursed Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 im going to go againt to flow and say i would like to see the death penalty back. only for people that there is no doubt about them being guilty of serten cold blooded murders . i also have several other criteria but its very long winded and would take me a long time to type it peace out farmer boy There was no doubt Stefan Kizko was guilty - until he was innocent. Or the Birmingham 6, or Guildford 4. And it's worth bearing in mind that if we *had* executed them, then there would have been much less interest in getting to the truth. No system man can devise is possible of perfection. It is axiomatic that there WILL be cases where an innocent man is executed. And I do not want that blood on my conscience - not in my name. and there is the crux of the problem, no conviction is ever certain, someone is convicted beyond reasonable doubt, that's not certainty in my eyes. Also not in my name. Top post again jimmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gumbo Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Yeah I like Jimmy's posts too,the death penalty appeals to our baser instincts for revenge at any cost.If we must have more blood sports I'd be more in favour of live cctv feeds from the various bars round parliament.A twatted MP or 2 would make for good ratings I'm sure.Now that I think of it,the death penalty for corrupt politicos...hmmmmm :wink: Gumbo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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