troy Posted December 27, 2011 Author Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) Well , I have to trust my doctor to some degree because he has extensive knowledge of the human body. But I may get a second opinion if I had my doubts because we are all fallible and doctors don't know everything about medicine. I think its beneficial for everybody to be able to trust others but if we find out they have lied we will be less likely to trust them in the future.I think its best to consult someone if a decision affects them especially if its an important one. I have made some cock ups in the past which would have gone better if only I had spoken to the person first. Communication is key, i think its probably quite rare to have to make a decision for someone else without asking them, although in the case of children we may have to. do you trust people enough, or are you constantly questioning them for the exact truth all the time about everything Personally I don't trust others without checking, if that opinion/decision affects me in any meaningful way. Edited December 27, 2011 by troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laramie Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) Animals have been observed lying - I seem to remember a rook pretending he hadn't found something so he wouldn't have to share, and dogs lie all the time. Humans have probably always lied, even the "I cannot tell a lie" story was a lie. People have learned to spot liars pretty well. Edited December 27, 2011 by Laramie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jibbajabba Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Ive seen what can happen to someone when they constantly lie, compulsively. I used to have a freind, he was my best freind, when we left school he started lying, lying to every one, including me, i knew he was lying as i knew him better then he thought.. This was a long time ago but because of his compulsive lying he has slowly lost everything, i mean everything, his freinds, his family, jobs, homes the lot, he's been in fights, he once even got me twated because he could'nt help him self, such a shame because he once was a cracking lad, ive not spoke to him for years but i doubt he would of changed, he took over him, like a deisese man.... the lying just seemed to get worse and worse, i mean he used to lie about lying ffs!!! Lying can fuck you up man, but i doubt telling your kids santa exists is going to send them on a path of compulsive lying... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratdog Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) Ive seen what can happen to someone when they constantly lie, compulsively. I used to have a freind, he was my best freind, when we left school he started lying, lying to every one, including me, i knew he was lying as i knew him better then he thought.. This was a long time ago but because of his compulsive lying he has slowly lost everything, i mean everything, his freinds, his family, jobs, homes the lot, he's been in fights, he once even got me twated because he could'nt help him self, such a shame because he once was a cracking lad, ive not spoke to him for years but i doubt he would of changed, he took over him, like a deisese man.... the lying just seemed to get worse and worse, i mean he used to lie about lying ffs!!! I know exactly what you mean mate, i have/had a friend just like that, i`m convinced he believed it all after a while though, he was also a alcoholic and through the lying and probably the drinking to cope with the level of lying (it was monumental come the end) he lost everything and ended up killing a person he was friends for longer than i`d known him, he`s about 2 years into a 7 year stretch, i don`t think i could ever face him again now though, shame as he was a fucking amazing gardener (veg/flower not weed) and the only person in my group of friends who always wanted to go camping, sad E2a, I think this is why i feel it`s ok to lie in small ways to protect people some of the time, obviously the above story is about a compulsive liar, extremely so Edited December 27, 2011 by ratdog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jibbajabba Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Yeah i should have used that word "monumental" as that's what it was man. I used to have a flat with him, he used to tell me he was on about 200 a week more than he was?? Why would he tell me that, i lived with lad?? i could never understand the lenghts he would go just to lie with no benefit from it??? We were in a club once, he got talking to a bouncer and ended up tellin him he imported pills from the dam?? This bouncer was all over him man, and all his bouncer mates?? I mean why the fuck would you do that??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratdog Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Yeah i should have used that word "monumental" as that's what it was man. I used to have a flat with him, he used to tell me he was on about 200 a week more than he was?? Why would he tell me that, i lived with lad?? i could never understand the lenghts he would go just to lie with no benefit from it??? We were in a club once, he got talking to a bouncer and ended up tellin him he imported pills from the dam?? This bouncer was all over him man, and all his bouncer mates?? I mean why the fuck would you do that??? Insecurity and having a bullshitting father i would guess, my mate`s dad was just as bad, was a right cunt to by all accounts, i met him once and he was just going on and on about how great he was, i know a few like this and they are definitely underachievers in their own eyes, shame is they arn`t in others they just feel so damn insecure, then trouble always follows.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jibbajabba Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Yeah i should have used that word "monumental" as that's what it was man. I used to have a flat with him, he used to tell me he was on about 200 a week more than he was?? Why would he tell me that, i lived with lad?? i could never understand the lenghts he would go just to lie with no benefit from it??? We were in a club once, he got talking to a bouncer and ended up tellin him he imported pills from the dam?? This bouncer was all over him man, and all his bouncer mates?? I mean why the fuck would you do that??? Insecurity and having a bullshitting father i would guess, my mate`s dad was just as bad, was a right cunt to by all accounts, i met him once and he was just going on and on about how great he was, i know a few like this and they are definitely underachievers in their own eyes, shame is they arn`t in others they just feel so damn insecure, then trouble always follows.... ahhhh it makes sense now you say that....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeedIsFree Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Ultimately white lies are just there to cover our own and other's inability to deal with our own situation, and yes on an individual level at the time they seem to solve things but in the long run all it does is add to a persons mental delusions of themselves and others But until we all agree to stop it someone is gonna look a right cunt telling his wife she looks fat, even if he doesn't care that she is fat, because he and she must conform subconsciously to perceptions of the 'norm' 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willowisp Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 i have saved this to read over the next couple of days in my nocturnal wonderings..where i have been devouring books lately.. it will be an atheist roller-coaster of a sci-fi novel, since the author is a smart scottish atheist.. beard and burly accent an' all.. i can't wait.. i see already that, following The Algebraist, it has no table of contents with useful titles, but only numbers..it'll be a foxy read in the company of a great atheist mind.. .. Let's get this straight...you walk around in the night while reading a book? I'm not saying it's mad or anything, just getting the picture straight in my head. Wouldn't it be easier to walk around in the day if you want to read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitsouko Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Lying is a natural thing to do, children learn to lie even before they can speak, just look at the surprise on a babies face when you play peek-a-boo, the child knows you have not gone, you are hiding behind your hands, but they know that you will keep playing as long as they are surprised. Do you have anything to back that up mate? Not all babies like peek a boo, they have to learn that it's a game. Lying is not natural at all, Just normalised and rife through society. I don't lie, I deal i truths no matter how hard or awful. Shit happens to everyone. I'm appalled at the men that tell your wife porkies. She wants to look nice for you ya know. Just use some tact and tell her what you think she looks nice in ffs. Grow a pair maybe. Being a liar is a bad quality and only excusable if in trouble with the law. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratdog Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 i have saved this to read over the next couple of days in my nocturnal wonderings..where i have been devouring books lately.. it will be an atheist roller-coaster of a sci-fi novel, since the author is a smart scottish atheist.. beard and burly accent an' all.. i can't wait.. i see already that, following The Algebraist, it has no table of contents with useful titles, but only numbers..it'll be a foxy read in the company of a great atheist mind.. .. Let's get this straight...you walk around in the night while reading a book? I'm not saying it's mad or anything, just getting the picture straight in my head. Wouldn't it be easier to walk around in the day if you want to read? He said wonderings, not wandering mate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Penny. Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 and only excusable if in trouble with the law. Amen,they lie through their back-teeth,only polite when in their "company" to do likewise How do you tell when plod is lying?His lips are moving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bazzad9 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Theres a interesting article here on children lying h ttp://www.apa.org/monitor/jan08/liar.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troy Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Thats an interesting article but its a shame that the journalist put their own spin on it e.g. Sage advice, but not something we consistently follow. As humans, we are as much defined by our economy with the truth as we are by our cooperation. But that's not necessarily a bad thing, say psychologists. Thats a confusing claim. I don't know what that means , how are we defined by our economy with the truth, whats not a bad thing ? Lying is a cognitive signal that people understand what others are thinking, the important cognitive milestone known as theory of mind. Well it may be but that doesn't mean its ok. Then : "Lying is really a good example of cost/benefit analysis," Lee says. "Everybody lies. You lie, I lie, but we have to figure out when to lie and when not to." Would you trust this person who sees lying as cost benefit analysis rather than as a moral imperative ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisUncoliingMortal Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) lying would seem to be a capacity available to those that can recognise the truth but choose to conceal it.. is it a lie to sing off-key..? is it a lie to play a duff note on an instrument..? there is a presumption somewhere in the notion of lying that there is a realm of absolute, indubitable truth.. it is the case that in no example of the meeting of two individuals can an arena of such absolute truth be agreed upon other than as an aid to peaceful action towards a common purpose.. truth is always a matter of active power..but how does that relate to fashion.. football is not a beautiful game to more people in the world than it is.. an example of a common purpose : "on me 'ead son..!!!!".. "@+BANG+@" ......!!!! in millionaires row they love the lie of the ball and the grace of the wind.. Edited January 4, 2012 by thisUncoliingMortal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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