seedsandsticks Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 My plants have thrips and I have read the pinned faq but I'm having trouble getting safers soft soap locally. Has anybody seen it under any tradenames in homebase or b&q? I intend to mix it with Scotts Bug Clear (bifrenthrin 2.8g/L). I can get it online but wanted it sooner. The firm Scarletts have stopped selling the concentrated form (was £11/300ml) and now sell a dilution for £15/L. If this is the stuff… Phostrogen Safers Organic Insecticide Useful control by contact action of whitefly, greenfly, blackfly, mealy bug, scale insect & red spider mite. Supplied in 500ml trigger sprayer. Contains natural fatty acids. Maff No.04328 …then I believe it is now called Savona Concentrate, but I didn’t notice either in the garden centre or b&q. cheers seedsandsticks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad (the impala) Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 DON'T add the bug clear stuff! - dreadful chemical rubbish, not to be used anywhere near plants you're going to smoke! There are loads of organic bug sprays about, based on natural fatty acids, and/or plant oils - any gardening store should have one - the best would be "Biobizz Buzoff" - if you can't get to a growshop, try a proprietary organic spray. I've found "Growing Success Bug Killer" excellent - organic, effective, and readily available! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedsandsticks Posted March 17, 2004 Author Share Posted March 17, 2004 Thanks, i have some buzz off I maybe I'll try that first. I was just determined to adopt a bib and braces approach so as to gain control as quick as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad (the impala) Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 honest mate, go with the Buzz off - its the dogs danglies, and won't harm you or the plants! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer1 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 There are loads of organic bug sprays about, based on natural fatty acids, and/or plant oils - any gardening store should have one - the best would be "Biobizz Buzoff" - if you can't get to a growshop, try a proprietary organic spray. I've found "Growing Success Bug Killer" excellent - organic, effective, and readily available! This is all very well, but none of the organic sprays avaliable will eradicate thrips in the indoor growroom! They only give a little control, within a few weeks to a few months they are immune, its fast track eveloution. That means you have an immune population liveing in your grow room. You then have to use combinations of sprays to get control, rotating between them. ie what you are doing is creating a super bug by intense selective breeding. I'm sorry but if there is the slightest risk of passing on these super bugs to other growers, it would be better if you stopped growing, if you are not willing to deal with this problem. Its only cannabis growers who have a permenent and near perfect enviroment that can create resistant bugs like this, If you are willing to make a fast track breeding enviroment, you should also be responsible for its enviromental consenquences as well. Its very similar to the way inadiquate treatment and hygene in hospitals has made MRSA into the killer bug it is today. I'm of the same opinion I always have had, eradicate any pests like thrips or spider mite, no half measures. Then make sure they don't get access to your grow room ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad (the impala) Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 what would you suggest as safe and organic way to achieve it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedsandsticks Posted March 17, 2004 Author Share Posted March 17, 2004 Ok back to the search for an insecticide soap to mix with my pyrethroid solution. Spoke to a bloke at interiorlanscaping.co.uk and apparently… ‘The raw product (fatty acid) comes from the Safers Corporation in Canada. The concentrated version of the insecticide comes from Holland under the name Savona. The Bio Organic (Bio Organic Houseplant Insecticide £2.77 - 500ml ) is the diluted retail version of the same product which is probably also known as Safers soft soap’. So back to the garden centres for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer1 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Vlad there is not one at this time. Bifenthrin is a synergised pyrethroid. It has a shorter life than the pyrethroid’s extracted from pyrethrum daisies. In most cases it will eradicate wild thrips with 2 treatments. Using soft soap as well, while it may cause some immediate leaf damage has in all cases that I have seen up to now when done properly totally eradicated thrips. I never ever recommend using it on flowering plants. It is best to get your crop off and only deal with the mother plants as well as spraying the empty grow area. If they are trimmed back then treated there is very little material for the thrips to live on and very little mix needs to be used. It really is a very serious problem. There are quite a few people here that have learnt to live with and to treat for thrips all the time now. I don’t care what anyone says there have to be residuals from rape seed oil emulsion, residuals from buzz off along with any other products used as well. I just would not want to smoke any of them, is that organic? Personally I think its the wrong way to go about it, but of course its the easiest way to deal with it especially at the start... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer1 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 seedsandsticks scarletts still list soft soap concentrate, are you sure about them???. The Organic Gardening Catalogue sell savona soft soap, its not quite the same as safers as it needs soft water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedsandsticks Posted March 17, 2004 Author Share Posted March 17, 2004 I called Scarletts and a guy there said they had stopped selling the concentrated form because ‘whoever was supplying them (Holland) had realised the profit they were losing and would now only sell them the diluted form’. Then he said he could import it from Holland but they would have to pay up to £10,000 in order to comply with the import regulations...? It was a bit more detail than I needed…and I was like, yeah alright mate, do I look bothered? No I mean, am I bothered though? Would the Horticultural oils also work as efficiently? Are they rape oil based products (Bionaturen ) part of the horticultural oils group? What is the purpose of the soap/oil, does it act purely as a wetting agent? I think I’ll go for the savona from the organic gardening cat. Cheers seedsandsticks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bish Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 I've just had a gift voucher from Scarletts fall through my letter box, & it would seem that they have discontinued their "safers soap". They're now selling an Organic Pest Control Spray - (1 litre of ready to use oil-based spray.) Would the Horticultural oils also work as efficiently? I've used the rape seed oil-based spray before, but it probably needed diluting alot more than the recommendation, as the oils covered the leaves so much that it nearly killed the plants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer1 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 No, oil emulsion products will not work in place of a soft soap product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedsandsticks Posted March 18, 2004 Author Share Posted March 18, 2004 Thanks, I've found a cheap savona concentrate at interior landscaping and I'll order it now. I sprayed them this morning after the lights went off. I just used the Scotts bug clear and hope it had some form of wetting agent in it. I was tempted to add a drop of detergent, but didn't. I was eager to start my programme, even without the safers, as I have caught early stages of infestation and have not really noticed any adults. I will spray again with the safers added in 3 days (or should I wait 5 or 7) and then the plan was to spray a third time, whether they were still there or not. I kinda forgot to mention I am 18 days into flower and really want to treat the plants before they have budded too heavily. Could I spray 3 times in 10 days? This morning at the back of the garden I also noticed a leaf which looked like it had been eaten, I hope it was a thrip-damaged distorted small leaf which tore as it grew leaving window like gaps, and not another pest with a big mouth. I hope the bifenthrin will see to it. seedsandsticks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer1 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Personally I would not spray flowering plants. Did you actually identify that they were thrips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedsandsticks Posted March 18, 2004 Author Share Posted March 18, 2004 Yes they are thrips. Although my rule is not to visit other rooms and never to take any thing in, after much pestering I finally visited a friends room who had 2 weeks to go and was very proud. He forgot to mention the thrips and they were so bad the floor was covered in dead ones and the leaves were covered with various stages. They were flying into us, they were so bad. When I got home I knew I shouldn't have even gone upstairs near the room until I had changed, but it was late, I was lazy and the bastard is my plants didnt need any attention and I knew that. I could have gone to bed with my thrips and kept them from my plants. 2 days later I noticed thrips on my plants which were closest to the door. So I'm sure they are. I understand about spraying flowering plants, and I'm gutted doing this but I'm hoping that without too much formed bud and using a short-lived insecticide... I am hoping I have some slow maturing girls (SSH) and I really didn't want to try to wait it out, I thought that the infestation would be so heavy by the end of flower that I had to treat it now. seedsandsticks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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