Boojum Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Nother sober alkey here, 8 months dry give or take a relapse or 2. Pot certainly helps, and outside observers would say I've just substituted heavy herb abuse instead of heavy alcohol abuse, but I'd tend to disagree. It's the whole addictive argument, folks who don't toke would consider my everyday use of herb as an addiction, myself having been in the grip of alcohol would disagree. I choose to smoke herb, it makes the world more bearable, in a way I need to smoke herb to deal with the madness of modern life, but I don't HAVE to have it, I don't get ill if I go without. It is something I choose to do because it improves my quality of life, it is not something I am compelled to do and in the long run destroys my quality of life, like alcohol. If only someone could come up with alcohol free alcohol that tastes like the real thing, I have no desire whatsoever to get drunk, but I really miss a glass of good red wine with a meal, I just know that it wouldn't be just one glass, and that way lies madness. I reckon alcoholism's as much about the person as the booze, I just can't have a single drink, once I have one I just wanna keep drinking, always have been that way since the first time I ever tasted alcohol (Harveys bristol cream aged about 8, downed the best part of a bottle & fell asleep at the foot of the stairs after failing to climb them about 30 times to much hilarity - surprisingly little bollocking when my folks got back from shopping, just refusal of painkillers the next day & a "I hope you've learned your lesson," - umm, guess not ), I was kinda surprised when I learned not everyone was like that. But that's not to say alcoholism can't sneak up on you stealthy like, as I say it's all about the person, I reckon, & things like motives for drinking. Dunno, even though I've always had a taste for it, I've also always had 'issues', so maybe it's just insecurities, or issues (including mental health ones), things like that make you more susceptible to the addictive properties of alcohol (not wishing to suggest any of you guys are loony, I'm just typing out a train of thought here, coming at it from my own standpoint of a history of mental health problems). Sorry, very stoned & kinda tranced out typing - guess my point is nowadays, for the good of my psychological wellbeing I'd far rather have a blunt than a short Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labrat Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 ta for that Boojum! Fair reminded me what it was like at 8 months. there's a fair bit in what you say there. it seems to me that there are a good number of 'sober alkeys' here, all with different drinking aims, lengths of sobriety and success, all growing and/or toking, and we all know the cravings can be a bit of a bastard at times .... it seems like we could offer each other a bit of support when needed. I know the subject is a bit off-topic for this board (though well catered for with news items etc.. cheers bongme + sr), so all I'm suggesting is the odd pm or something, without feeling as though you shouldn't be asking if you know what I mean. dunno really, just seems like a decent idea to me - anyway, I'll offer. If anybody wants to, feel free to pm me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad (the impala) Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 cravings, abatement of - back in the 50's work was done with schizos and alcoholics that showed they excreted virtually no b & c vitamins, so they dosed them with "megadoses" of them - a vast majority got better (85% of even long-term schizos) -this became known as the "megavitamin theory" - long since falsely discredited as is any therapy that doesn't make big pharma some money! The upshot is, take meaningful quantities of natural source vitamin b complex (health food shop job) - with either 50mg or 100 mg of each of the main components - triple the stated dose for a few days - psychedelic yellow and pongy pee is a good sign you're getting saturated with it -then cut back to the recommended dose - you'll find its a wonderful natural calmer, and really helps get rid of cravings! (it's done me for over 20 years!) One of the reasons you get "the shakes" the morning after is shortage of vit "b" - boozing strips out all the water soluble vitamins (b and c) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad (the impala) Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 and on a lighter note (fom a us site!) Signs you have a Drinking Problem You lose arguments with inanimate objects. You have to hold onto the lawn to keep from falling off the earth. Job interferring with your drinking. Your docter finds traces of blood in your alcohol stream. Career won't progress beyond Senator from Massachusettes. The back of your head keeps getting hit by the toilet seat. Sincerely believe alcohol to be the elusive 5th food group. 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case - coincidence?? - I think not! Two hands and just one mouth... - now THAT'S a drinking problem! When you can focus better with one eye closed. The parking lot seems to have moved while you were in the bar. Every woman you see has an exact twin. You fall off the floor... Your twin sons are named Barley and Hops. Hey, 5 beers has just as many calories as a burger, screw dinner! The glass keeps missing your mouth! Bill Clinton starts to make sense. Vampires catch a buzz after attacking you [also mosquitoes!] At AA meeting you begin: "Hi, my name is... uh..." Your idea of cutting back is less salt. You wake up in the bedroom, your underwear is in the bathroom, you fell asleep clothed. - hmm. The whole bar says 'Hi' when you come in... You think the Four Basic Food Groups are Caffeine, Nicotine,Alcohol, and [Women]. Every night you're beginning to find your roomate's cat more and more attractive. Hi ocifer. I'm not under the affluence of incohol. I'm not drunk... you're just sober... - HI OCIFER!!!!!! Roseanne looks good. Don't recognize wife unless seen through bottom of glass. That damned pink elephant followed me home again. You have a Reserved Parking space at the liquor store. I'm as jober as a sudge. You wake up in Korea in August and the last thing you remember is the Fourth of July party at the Halekulani in Waikiki. You've fallen and you can't get up. BeerTender! Get me another Bar! The shrubbery's drunk too, from frequent watering" ps anyone who's hurting for booze, feel free to pm this mudgrower! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labrat Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 (edited) Vlad, sorry mate, but multi-vits will do bugger all for cravings. Multivits (esp B12) are bloody useful at first, and might even make you feel better in the morning (prefer OJ myself), but they do nothing more than provide raw materials for the body. They should be present in a normal diet anyway. The shakes wouldn't be affected by a vitamin boost in any way, shape or form. edited (posting at the same time) : love that list Edited March 2, 2004 by Labrat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad (the impala) Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 sorry mate, you're down in flames on that one! Even conventional medics prescribe shots of b-complex for alcoholism - I know, they hit my sciatic nerve once while injecting! Firstly, it replaces the b vitamins stripped out of the body by alcohol, it is often prescribed in the states instead of tranquilisers - b-complex feeds the entire nervous system, helps the skin and digestion, and from personal experience attest that if taken as above, it most definitely abates the cravings - in over 20 years, I have NEVER craved alcohol!!!!!!!! - the same effects have been noted by several people to whom it has been recommended! As to precisely how or why it has such an effect, I haven't a clue, but I know that the book "The Megavitamin Theory" put me on to it, and it works! As always, I would heartily recommend avoiding synthetic vitamins - they do not work at all well, and can be toxic - health food shop job! Sorry to explode on this one, but you're mouthing the rubbish that comes from doctors schooled to think that if you're not suffering scurvy, you've got enough vitamins - utter bollocks, the optimum dose is far higher, and therapeutic doses higher still! And to suggest that anyone gets enough from a normal diet is laughable - if we lived as hunter gatherers in an unpolluted environment, then perhaps we may, instead we breathe a chemical soup, our food is poisoned with chemicals, as is our water, our homes with foam fumes.................we need every bit of good nutrition we can get our hands on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad (the impala) Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 ps "B" vitamins should NEVER be taken except as a balanced "vitamin b complex" - single b vits can be very toxic, especially if synthesised! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad (the impala) Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 hacktewally, it is exactly the same as the difference between lovely whole organic ganja bud - a wonderful concoction of 200 natural compounds, that work in a synergistic way to work its magic, and horrid synthesised single-component chemicals bunged out by big pharma, that don't work, and are side-effects ridden! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkle Posted March 2, 2004 Author Share Posted March 2, 2004 hey guys,what have we going down here,i realised i was'nt alone when i walked into a roomfull of alcoholics[my first AA meeting] and they made me welcome[like uk420] sat me down,and gave me a cuppa,i thought i was the only person in the world who had this horrible disease,but i'm not,and posting on this site is as much help to me as ameeting,VTI you were'nt by any chance in the "priory" at altringham?i was, my son came over from the usofa,and had to cart me on a plane over to it,totally srewed up on diazepam,temazapan,librium,you name it,i was taking it,but washing it down with neat vodka,crazy man,anyhow in the priory part of the treatment!! was harpoons full of vits c tried to hide when nurses came for me but i came out of there a month later,and £12000 lighter,and on the way to manchester airport stopped at first off licence,got a carrier bag full of the best booze they had went to the excelsior at the airport checked in and got pissed phoned the wife told her i'd missed the plane,then got pissed again,what a crazy world i was in,but today just today i'm ok,and i thank some higher power for that[and m/j],any you guys struggling?p/m me anytime,peace and good health to all of you,twinkle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad (the impala) Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I've quoted it before, but I reckon it's valid - only 2% of chronic alcoholics make it back, and stay free! - "walk the path of heroes" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labrat Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Hi Vlad, We're on opposite sides here. Not unexpected. B vits are essential to many systems, the nervous system especially. But they will have no impact upon either the shakes (acute withdrawal) or craving (long term). The shakes are a consequence of the addiction. One of the ways the brain attempts to compensate for the constant sea of alcohol it finds itself in is by inhibiting neurotransmission via up and down regulation of specific receptors for a key neurotransmitter, GABA. In the absence of alcohol these changes are unopposed and holding a cup of tea becomes difficult. Craving could also be called psychological addiction. In my experience it's a profound preoccupation with alcohol which is triggered for me by stress mainly, and only occasionally by environmental cues (like being hit by an ad for your poison etc..). Mind, for the first 12 months or so it was more or less the only thought going through my brain, night and day. IMHO and looking at the published literature, it appears it may be related to long lasting structural and functional changes in the same region of the brain that was responsible for addicting us in the first place! I can see no mechanism which would be influenced by multi-vits. I may be 'mouthing the rubbish' as you put it (and almost certainly qualify as the antichrist in your eyes, should we ever meet ), but please don't make the assumption that I don't know it. On the whole though, I don't think balanced multi-vits are a bad idea. In fact Vlad, I took some of Farmweb's advice last year, at least in part. Been taking a probiotic multibionta multicoloured multivit, daily for about 3 months now. My pee has never been yellower and i'm crapping regular as clockwork - 8am, awake or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkle Posted March 2, 2004 Author Share Posted March 2, 2004 vlad,labrat, :fuckyou: behave you pair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad (the impala) Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 its a matter of faith - I gather conventional medicine does not fully understand the mechanisms by which drugs work - they rely instead on results, I'm only doing the same for natural therapies! - I have never craved alcohol, thanks to regular natural vit b complex - it was advised throughout my self-help group, because it works! I think you'll find this is the big difference in conventional and alternative therapies - "big pharma" works on single compounds, they are now just finding out that some drugs potentiate others, that there is the beginning of understanding that compounds do not work well alone, but are better mixed with others - to just make a mathematical model of the complex interrelationship present in just ganja would burn out a supercomputer - suffice it to say, there is 50,000 years of clinical experience in herbalism, 6,000 in acupuncture, and about 140 years of "big pharma" - I'd sooner go with experience myself, rather than some crude "upstart" like chemicals as therapy! :fuckyou: ps it does get rid of the shakes, and cravings! - dunno how, just does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad (the impala) Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 -and long may the silly sod stay sober enough for a good verbal punch-up! :fuckyou: :punk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkle Posted March 2, 2004 Author Share Posted March 2, 2004 great banter guys,take care of yourselves,twinkle's checking out tonight :fuckyou: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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