'CANNA' VEG & FORES

[Nitramkram]

Ok I will attempt to be shot to the point and accurate.

I have been informed that the Canna nutes I purchased and using are 'buffered' for "hard water".

I also adjust my PH using 'Growth Technologies' PH up & PH down.

I am starting to force flower early hoping to gian info on which of my plants are male & females and have taken 2 clones from each of my 10 plants - labled them for ID later.

I am having difficulty stabilizing the PH which I can adjust to 5.2 and with temptrture rising from 18 to 22 deg cel (being is Austrlia it is difficult to keep low res trmps) the ph is gradually rising possibly becuse of:

1) buferng effect of Canna Veg nutes. or;

2) the younf age of plants (still in veg growth stage) or;

1) & 2) above

I am aiming for a PH of 5.2 (optimal for soilless mediums) and max 5.5 (tolerable) - but now the technical stuff cuts in.

While I have them on a 12/12 flowering cycle, the plants r young & the plants r still aftr only 2 periods on 12/12 respond as though veging at moment causing the res/nutes to rise in PH (alkaline) with the roots veg process adding alkalinity. This is revesed in Flowering stage in whch th root ystem causes the res/nute PH to become more acidic (lower PH) - hope I got this this the right way around right way around & corect me if I have please.

so what is my question for the techl minded growers ?

Q1) Should I continue to 12/12 feeding the Canna Flore A & B nutes ?

Q2) Shoud I cease the force flowering and be patient switching back to 18/6 & veg more?

Wih option Q2 I can determine the Mums & from Dad's.

ANY ADVICETAKEN ONBOARD WILLINGLY & I'V ALWAYS GOT MY ORGANICS COMMING ALONG IF i F--CK UP BIG TIME.

any tech advice on how to deal with buffing nute except to switching nutes?

CHEERS

[Luke Skywalker]

FUCK! The whole post I just wrote out on this just deleted itself through stoned inaccurate typing...

I'll try again.

Now, pH. You've said that you think the ph should be going up in veg and down in flowering? No, not quite true. The ph levels should be slowly drifting upwards in your reservoir, as the plants draw on the nutrients dissolved in it. If you're running a simple recirculating media system, then you should keep the ph levels at 5.2-5.8 in the res, you should only ever have to add ph down as the res gets older. Do you have a Truncheon or similar e.c. meter? These are one of the most important tools for hydroponic growing. If you are finding that the ph is dropping day to day, then it means that the plants are either not drawing on nutes, or you're getting extra salts into the reservoir from the pots. If you don't flush out the media you're growing in every week or two, then you'll quickly end up with an extreme level of salts in the pot, making for overfertilising and some of the salts will be returned to the reservoir, increasing the concentration and making it more acidic... Does that make any sense? Overall, ph should be raising slowly, with you only having to make slight adjustments down every few days, although sometimes daily, (particularly as the plants get bigger and start guzzling down nutes.)

If pH is swinging lots, then review the system and look at all the possibilities, because that shouldn't be happening in a well run hydro system. A detailed description of your setup would probably make for a better diagnosis..

If you are using nutes designed for "hard" water, then they will be slightly more acidic than those designed for soft waters. This is because "hard" waters usually have large amounts of calcium, and come out of the tap at around 8.0 - 9.0 pH, which is very alkaline indeed. Once again, a tds meter is what you need to find out just how "hard" your water is.

As to the sexing, well, if you're growing from seed, I'd advise you to maintain the plants on vegging nutes if you're only going to keep them on 12:12 for a short while, because this will still produce flowers, but it will allow the plant to just show you the sex rather than prepare itself for a full blooming. As to the clones, well, you could simply flower the clones to find out the sex of the mother/father plants, leave the mother/fathers on vegging lights and nutes, and then once you've worked out who's who from the clones, remove the daddies and flower the mothers when they're ready. You can either return the clones to veg, or even flower them out with the mother plants, although a clone grow is a little different, not as much vegging time and different feeding requirements. If you've got the space, veg and flower the female clones in a bunch, and pick out the best ones for the next crop, which you can then clone and keep things going indefinitely...

I hope this has helped ya and not just made you confused, if you have any other queries about what the heck I'm on about feel free to ask... Oh, and I'll pm ya in a minute about something too. Talk to you soon mate.

[jjl]

good post luke that put me clear on a few thing iv been meaning to ask

[Nitramkram]

Luke Skywalker

Thanks for your reply and your attention and persistance deserves a discussion.

1)

2)

you should keep the ph levels at 5.2-5.8 in the res

up on that - on top of it eehhhhh. not sure . will follow with a file to support my observations - yes a journal - "word format of readings 1./2 hrly then 1 hourly & 2 x a day now.

3)

Now, pH. You've said that you think the ph should be going up in veg and down in flowering?

Agree

The ph levels should be slowly drifting upwards how about radical ups and downs PS: checked and doubled checked PH accuracy, old iodses & battry levels

4)

Do you have a Truncheon or similar e.c. meter?

Wouldn't start without one.

you should only ever have to add ph down as the res gets older

yeah 2 weely change overs using rainwater (with gods willing blessing - EC readings is >.2 & PH 6.0 Average & Res temp 18 - 22 deg cel. Add nutes check PH & EC & temp - make minor adjustments. I can usually attain PH of 5.2 - 5.5 & ec between 2.2-2.4 (a one 'outlyer' of 2.5 (1540 ppm - 1680). Pretty reasonable

one of the most important tools for hydroponic growing

Not recommednded "essential"

5)

If you are finding that the ph is dropping day to day, then it means that the plants are either not drawing on nutes, or you're getting extra salts into the reservoir from the pots.

Yes Iam, but on examinations of my record over 3 days fluxuations may bewith in expectations - his I don't know. So can you tell me if the above info on PH range is within acceptale range or 'normal' !

na no mdia Pic of 2" pvc pipe setup attached but also have identical 4" pvd setup which when I need in 4 - 5 days as the others are outgrowing my germination space (3 - 5 weeks in there veging). Clones will be fdone in about 2 - 5 days prioe to transfer from 2" to 4" set up.

6)

If you don't flush out the media you're growing in every week or two, then you'll quickly end up with an extreme level of salts in the pot, making for overfertilising and some of the salts will be returned to the reservoir, increasing the concentration and making it more acidic...

Yep when I get them into the 4" pipes with those clay balls I forgot the name but not vamiculite or perlite - I'm sure you know the ones.

7)

some of the salts will be returned to the reservoir, increasing the concentration and making it more acidic.

descrepany here my PH is increasing over hours, well perhaps a day - not days or weeks (1-2) which is 'ALKALINITY'

8)

If pH is swinging lots, then review the system and look at all the possibilities, because that shouldn't be happening in a well run hydro system. A detailed description of your setup would probably make for a better diagnosis....

I have some earlier posts and pics in another user name my brother who designed the system - but the addition of media to the 4" is my contribution and a 15 lt max 22 lts is a little small. My only othercomment except that the returning nute solution in its expended form should be 'acidic' but it's not it is rising and that means incrasing for 5.3 to 5.8 - 9 wich is s high as i let it go befor throwing in some 'Gowth Technologies' PH Down.

9)

I'd advise you to maintain the plants on vegging nutes if you're only going to keep them on 12:12 for a short while, because this will still produce flowers, but it will allow the plant to just show you the sex rather than prepare itself for a full blooming

Something for me to do and will wait till next water change 1 Week (30/7).

A bit of flowering nutes for week won't hurt and I think I did a 50/50 nute mix veg + Flower anyway.

10)

If you've got the space, veg and flower the female clones in a bunch, and pick out the best ones for the next crop, which you can then clone and keep things going indefinitely...

Thats my plan which only leae the descrepancy of my alkaliniy not acidic incrase (acidity).

As it is late here now 12.30 am i'm off to bed while ny babies sleep. I have a older photo and will pst some latest ones tomoro.

Cheers m8 - perplexing - can it be as simple as getting 'acidity' (low PH) confused with alcholinity (High PH)

Well since you lost your first effort i hope there is some clarity comming from somewhere. Your most valuble info ws on :

I'd advise you to maintain the plants on vegging nutes if you're only going to keep them on 12:12 for a short while, because this will still produce flowers, but it will allow the plant to just show you the sex rather than prepare itself for a full blooming

Thanks and if you have ay further comment/s plese dd - pics to follow

[Nitramkram]

Luke Skywalker

Previous Pick was inspection of root decelopment. This one of 2" PVC setup with no media pic

[Nitramkram]

Lastly my adition is he scrog - biult out of scraps with netting 12" from 4" pipes and 1/2 filled wirh those clay beeds .

cya on the boards and where r in winter here in Syney now - not o cold but next month we can get 5 - 3 - 1 deg cel here - where r u locaten generally.

hope I have spent as mch time on this as you

time I was asleep

[Nitramkram]

aaaaaaaaone final thing possibly worth mentioning I have my plants on 12/12 for flowering so may be they will take a while to switch from ver mode to flower mode - sy 3 - 4 weeks in the mean ime i will take your most valuble contribution nd sleep on it as there is no real urgency/

This is because "hard" waters usually have large amounts of calcium, and come out of the tap at around 8.0 - 9.0 pH, which is very alkaline indeed. Once again, a tds meter is what you need to find out just how "hard" your water is

Tap water PH 6.8 & EC > (unrecmarkable) 0.2 rainwater 6.0 >0.2 9 (unrecmarkable)

[Nitramkram]

one final thing possibly worth mentioning I have my plants on 12/12 for flowering so may be they will take a while to switch from ver mode to flower mode - sy 3 - 4 weeks in the mean ime i will take your most valuble contribution nd sleep on it as there is no real urgency/

This is because "hard" waters usually have large amounts of calcium, and come out of the tap at around 8.0 - 9.0 pH, which is very alkaline indeed. Once again, a tds meter is what you need to find out just how "hard" your water is

Tap water PH 6.8 & EC > (unrecmarkable) 0.2 rainwater 6.0 >0.2 9 (unrecmarkable)

many thanks Luke Skywalker