Theist-Atheist scale

[Chris P]

With recent discussions on Atheism, agnostism and theism, to get a more accurate representation of peoples views, on a scale of 1 to 7 where do you stand on your beliefs?

E2a: I voted 6

Edited August 13, 2008 by Krys Farm

[Guest roger]

From experience, you'll get told that a lot of peoples beliefs don't fit on that scale.

I voted 7

[Chris P]

From experience, you'll get told that a lot of peoples beliefs don't fit on that scale.

What other options are there?

Acutally, I think we need a definition of God.

For the purposes of this poll, God is not the universe, but the creator of the universe.

Edited August 13, 2008 by Krys Farm

[T1]

i voted 6

its impossible to "know" wither or not a deity exists

T1

[Random Numbers]

6, you cannot disprove things.

[NMW]

7

[Guest roger]

From experience, you'll get told that a lot of peoples beliefs don't fit on that scale.

What other options are there?

Acutally, I think we need a definition of God.

For the purposes of this poll, God is not the universe, but the creator of the universe.

From earlier....

There is no conflict between religion and "evolution". Some may argue with it, but I don't know why. Evolution (let's ditch idaes of "proven" and "certainty", so misleading and useless) is an obvious process. Only by distorting and twisting the Old Testament Creation Myths can you arrive at a conflict. Treat them with respect for what they really are, and you find all conflict just floats away

That's an interesting way of looking at it, but can a Christian take that point of view and still believe?

Yes. I would, I suppose, call myself "Christian". I find the teaching of Jesus Christ to be mind blowing tbh, and absolutely in order. But I don't agree with Churches, doctrinal formulations, creeds and all the silliness that is "Religion". Its time to strip it away and get to the heart of the matter.

But Orthodox Protestant theologians like BB Warfield had no problem with evolution either, despite his rigid Calvinism (although I found his lapsarianism somewhat disturbing).

So I guess the answer to your question is "Yes".

I didn't realise you could still class yourself as a Christian without believing in the god of the old testament; what god do you believe in, is it the same one that jesus did?

Its quite possible. I would argue indeed, that it is almost essential. Is there a God of the Old Testament? Possible, but there are various conflicts of perception in there too if that's the case.

The God of Jesus? No, I have problems with Jesus, just as much as I have agreements. But the central core of his teaching I find inspiring, illuminating and profundly hard to put into practice. Where do I find this teaching? Its there, amongs the Gospels. Mark in particular has a thoroughly eye-witess feel if you read it in the Koine Greek it was first composed in. I suspect an early date for Mark, pre-AD70 almost certainly, and rich in "Q" source material. "Q" is widely regarded as a first hand follower and witness to the events in the life of Jesus. His writtend accoun is believed to be at the core of both Matthew and Luke, both of whom have embellished it with curious and strange ideas.

Jesus himself seems to have been profoundly opposed to Religion. Look at the way in which he attacked verbally the scholars of his day, and the way in whcih he "purged" the Temple in Jerusalem.

Then read John 15. A clear diatribe aganst Religion which is regarded is nothing but human tradition and law, and "fruitless", ready to be burned.

Being a Christian is not, in my view, about "believeing" this or that, not even is it about believing in "the God of Jesus". I take its about life itself, about the way in which we live it.

Edited August 13, 2008 by roger

[Chris P]

From earlier....

I think for the purposes of this poll, we have to keep it simple, and it is just about our own belief in the probability of God existing, not the virtues of following the teachings of Christianity or another religion or the creationist myth of the bible. We also have to assume that God is not the universe, but some mysterious entity that created the universe for it to be meaningful. So it is not about the Christian God, or a Muslim God, or any other specific interpretation, but a generalisation of whether we believe a creator of the universe exists.

[Guest nu jerzey devil]

Defo voted a 7.

I see religion as the scourge of our planet.

Look at all the wars it has caused.

The worst type of person to deal with is someone who has a belief system. They follow like sheep, instead of being free thinking. well fanatics anyways.

I also see the world slightly from Darwin's point of view. That we Evolved in no set patteren or design. It is simply Dog eat dog. Survival of the strongest/Fittest.

[Guest roger]

I also see the world slightly from Darwin's point of view. That we Evolved in no set patteren or design. It is simply Dog eat dog. Survival of the strongest/Fittest.

or friendliest! fittest means 'suitable for a purpose' in that context...

Edited August 13, 2008 by roger

[Chris P]

Defo voted a 7.

I see religion as the scourge of our planet.

Look at all the wars it has caused.

This isn't about religion though, or religious followings, we have to put that aside to answer this question I think we have to be more abstract.

I have 0% faith in any of the man-made religions interpretation of the specifics of God, however the big personal question still remains, do you think there is a God?

[Guest roger]

From earlier....

I think for the purposes of this poll, we have to keep it simple, and it is just about our own belief in the probability of God existing, not the virtues of following the teachings of Christianity or another religion or the creationist myth of the bible. We also have to assume that God is not the universe, but some mysterious entity that created the universe for it to be meaningful. So it is not about the Christian God, or a Muslim God, or any other specific interpretation, but a generalisation of whether we believe a creator of the universe exists.

Just want so say no disrespect to Arnold! I am interested to hear more of what he has to say on that - I just didn't want to push it in a 'god' thread.... However he is a trained theologian...

eta: I can't see how you can think god 'did it' with out subscribing to some sort of preexisting faith.

Edited August 13, 2008 by roger

[Guest nu jerzey devil]

I also see the world slightly from Darwin's point of view. That we Evolved in no set patteren or design. It is simply Dog eat dog. Survival of the strongest/Fittest.

or friendliest! fittest means 'suitable for a purpose' in that context...

Well I guess its just how you interpret the words. Like you say suitable for purpose. Well the purpose is survival surely.

Correct me if I am wrong

NJD

[Guest nu jerzey devil]

Ok cool.

No God IMO

[Guest roger]

I also see the world slightly from Darwin's point of view. That we Evolved in no set patteren or design. It is simply Dog eat dog. Survival of the strongest/Fittest.

or friendliest! fittest means 'suitable for a purpose' in that context...

Well I guess its just how you interpret the words. Like you say suitable for purpose. Well the purpose is survival surely.

Correct me if I am wrong

NJD

Friendly apes make more babies than unfriendly apes...

Edited August 13, 2008 by roger