herman herb Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 I could understand a genetic blueprint to grow limbs etc, But a genetic blueprint for a blind peanut to climb 10" or whatever it is through fur then to find a fold of skin, change to a downward climb till it finds a nipple....Hmm sounds like a conscious act to me from something that couldn't possibly have learnt it. And when seen along with what the o/p said in this sentence I'd say that's the difference between instinct and learned behaviour. Instinct is hard wired. The instict for a joey to do that is no different from the instinct that carnivores have to chase fast moving objects (which they do from birth), or the instinct that sea turtles have to make towards the sea when they hatch, or countless other instinctual behaviours that animals have from birth. So who is to say that "Instincts" and a passed on subconscious are not the same thing.....I'm not saying its right, Only that if there is such a thing as re-incarnation one could use these instances as a most basic form of a passed on knowledge leading to accounts of a past life in humans I mean if a person says they had a past life where they drowned then it wouldn't be unreasonable for that person to be scared of water in their present life ?..... So if for no reason some people are scared of water............Is that hard wired instinct or passed on knowledge ? I could offer these as reasons for evidence for re-incarnation.......What could a doubter give as theirs ? In truth tho i'm a skeptic and aint got a fecking clue. Just playing devils advocate. HAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojum Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 I'd say instinct is something that all members of a species have from birth, and unless the species has precisely the same number of births and deaths every generation then it can't be reincarnation. A lot of behaviour - even complex behaviour - comes from the structure of the brain (learning, after all, alters the structure of the brain, reinforcing certain neural pathways, getting rid of others). Organisms are born with certain neural pathways in place, these lead to certain behaviours, that is what is defined as instinct, and those neural pathways are determined by how proteins are synthesised prenatally, which is a result of DNA encoding (to a greater or lesser degree, it's more complex than that but, surprisingly for me.... I'm a bit too drunk to go further into it than that at present :wink: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arai Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Anyone think there could be such a thing as genetic memory?, that could explain the reincarnation idea. interesting subject, personnaly i dont believe in reincarnation, once your dead, your dead but thats just me. A Joey (Baby Kangaroo) instinctively knows to climb from its mothers vagina to its pouch, Could this be some evidence of a passed on subconscious ? this has got me thinking about my dog, a border collie, he's never seen a sheep in his life but since he was about 4 months old, he's been trying to herd up the GFs cat except you know cats, they dont respond to kindly to following orders but he still trys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojum Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Anyone think there could be such a thing as genetic memory?, that could explain the reincarnation idea. interesting subject, personnaly i dont believe in reincarnation, once your dead, your dead but thats just me. A Joey (Baby Kangaroo) instinctively knows to climb from its mothers vagina to its pouch, Could this be some evidence of a passed on subconscious ? this has got me thinking about my dog, a border collie, he's never seen a sheep in his life but since he was about 4 months old, he's been trying to herd up the GFs cat except you know cats, they dont respond to kindly to following orders but he still trys. Kinda what I'm saying - through selective breeding border collies herd things - the instinct to herd has been bred into them, to become good sheepdogs they need training, but the instinct to herd is in them, because it has been bred into them. They have brains that have been manipulated, via selective breeding, to have those neural connections from birth. Aw shit, I'm explaining it badly, bloody pisshead I know what I'm trying to say :wink: But I think that supports my point. Even the offspring of a border collie that has been a pet all its life, never a sheepdog, will exhibit the instinct to herd, because it's hard wired into them through selective breeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arai Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 (edited) very good Booj, that explains it better, we actually got him from a farmer & his parents were award winning sheepdogs. e2a- so thats why when he's not herding the cat, he'd happily play for 20 hours a day with me throwing tennis & rugby balls. my bloody arms killin me Edited June 22, 2008 by arai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojum Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Lovely looking fella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMW Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 i agree it bread into them through selective breading i bet they even dream of chasing sheep same as you can put traits into plants through selective breading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boojum Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 i agree it bread into them through selective breading i bet they even dream of chasing sheep same as you can put traits into plants through selective breading Precisely. We think we're so sophisticated, but a lot of what we do is simply down to how our brains are 'wired' - that's instinct. Probably means nothing in the wider debate that this thread is about concerning reincarnation, but I think it explains the apparently complex behaviour of animals just after birth, it's just how their brains are wired. After all, the brain is just a mixture of proteins & fat, and DNA encodes the production of protein. As humans communication is encoded in our brains - we need to be taught a specific language, but our brains are wired from birth to be receptive to learning language because we have developed as a social animal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DtH Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 (edited) more to it than that,but I think,the only real way to understand the power of these theories,is to research DMT,first hand,yourself. yeah the dmt ingestion route is obviously the easiest. or you can learn astral projection. lucid dreamings a more realistic starting point though. The funny thing is, a lot of the people believe in a certain doctrine before they have an experience. Eg. Evangelical Christians seeing Jesus Christ and communicating with God. Eg. Hindus feeling like they know they had a past life. i believe that energy is percieved through the veil of that persons belief system, so in death you will see whatever you always expected to see, (http://www.near-death.com - for plenty of documented experience from all religions and atheists) - doesnt have to be a religion at all though. ive found you go where you fit in, who you are at your densest layer will be your residual plane of existence, and you are unable to exist in dimensions higher than your finest level of vibration. i had many 'heaven like' experiences, but my obes stopped due to literal fear of/from my densent layer. it showed me in a a very no nonsense way, not so many times, who i was at my worst. ive experienced some amazing/creepy shit, but mainly found each experience to somehow be an intricate reflection of an aspect of you which you may or may not like to address. it cant all be positive unfortunately, at least not for me. they stopped when i got too creeped out, but its a learning process. if/when you can overcome your fear you can go far. but for me, it kept returning me to a negative aspect and saying LOOK AT THIS NOW PLZ and i was like err no thanks, see ya. so im still working on that one. dont think anyone documents their personal work in this field better than robert monroe or robert bruce. beyond that you really do gotta check it out for yourselves. edited for links and potential withnailing, i am aware i look a nutter, ar well thats ok Edited June 23, 2008 by deckthehalls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishBaby24 Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I don't have any belief as to what happens after death. Though If I had to pick one I think this would be it. Stupid reason I know, but as far as this whole 'reincarnation' thing goes, there are supposed to be 'old souls' and 'new souls' right? Which, would explain (in a spiritual sense) the ever rising population of the planet, new souls joining the world along side old souls IF reincarnation existed. When I find myself asking the question 'I wonder what happens after you die' I answer with this: Do you remember what it was like before you were born? Nope. So I imagine thats what it must be like after you die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyanalogue Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Some people believe i was MLK in a previous life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grandad Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 one thing is certain, our body dies. in this case it will only be our mind, if this is the case will we pass through with our stone intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebirth Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 sort of ironically i dont believe in reincarnation. pretty sure you die and that is it. i think imagining nothing is the hardest thing you can do. rebirth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herman herb Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 I got thinking hard after this thread and couldn't get over "Instinct", I just can't get my head around an animal being born with a street map built into it, So the Theory i came up with is called "subconscious Familiarity". We know our minds are emitting electricity through thoughts, So what if this thought induced electricity was able to be etched into the matter that surrounds us....Just like a hard disk....Then all those experiences would be there to be picked up upon, And because every "Joey" that ever lived or every "Turtle" that ever lived had left their exact same experience of the journeys they had made to survive on this "Hard disk"...Then maybe any future Joeys or baby turtles would be able to subconsciously pick up on these experiences left by their past kin so that the sound of the ocean sounded so subconsciously familiar to a baby turtle that it seemed natural to head for it and the same for the Joey finding its way to its mothers pouch. Further a past individuals experiences could be so clearly picked up on by a persons subconscious that many events of that individuals life could become so familiar that they mistake this for it being a past-life. Also this theory allows for the instances of psychic abilities such as psychic detection and remote viewing, Tho it maybe so hit and miss it wouldn't be consistent ?, And "Deja-vu" could be a future experience of yours that had somehow been been picked up earlier so that when you arrived at that point it seemed so familiar. Apologies for my writing skills but i hope you can get the gist of what i'm trying to say......and i'm sure you'll let me know what you think :wink: Peace HAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canabizbob Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 yeah the dmt ingestion route is obviously the easiest. or you can learn astral projection. lucid dreamings a more realistic starting point though. Hello Holly,have you experienced the DMT ingestion route,if so,how did it compare to your astral projection,lucid dreaming. Cheers,Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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