Desire..

[Guest roger]

I've always thought that believing that there was some kind of purpose to life assumes some kind of higher organising principle, or God, if you like.

fair point - if there was a 'meaning' to 'it all' surely that would suggest everything is an articulation of a consciousness which formed it to make a point

but assuming that there is no one guiding meaning does not automatically make nihilism the alternative either

the Tao has its own ways, ways that can't be understood.

[Guest Dr Benways Assistant]

It's a paradox that has always puzzled me. To a buddhist desire is a bad thing, but their search for enlightenment is a desire, so in searching for enlightenment they are causing themselves suffering. Maybe true enlightenment is not finding enlightenment, but ceasing to desire it and search for it, maybe once you stop searching for it you've found it.

In which case I've found enlightenment. Now if only I could shake off the desire for booze, fags, cannabis and women

Bang on

[Boojum]

I've always thought that believing that there was some kind of purpose to life assumes some kind of higher organising principle, or God, if you like.

fair point - if there was a 'meaning' to 'it all' surely that would suggest everything is an articulation of a consciousness which formed it to make a point

but assuming that there is no one guiding meaning does not automatically make nihilism the alternative either

the Tao has its own ways, ways that can't be understood.

The Tao has got nothing to do with Buddhism.

[Guest roger]

The Tao has got nothing to do with Buddhism.

I meant it as an example of an unknowable reason for....

[Hir]

I've always thought that believing that there was some kind of purpose to life assumes some kind of higher organising principle, or God, if you like.

fair point - if there was a 'meaning' to 'it all' surely that would suggest everything is an articulation of a consciousness which formed it to make a point

but assuming that there is no one guiding meaning does not automatically make nihilism the alternative either

the Tao has its own ways, ways that can't be understood.

Well whats the f***ing point of that, that is pure elitism and sophistory ... how does anybody know that it can't be understood ...thats just bollox ... peace ..!

(One thing I like about cannabis, you don't have to look for enlightenment, it will just happen, peeps just think of the "AH!" moments they've had when smoking.... and other psycodelics)

Edited January 8, 2008 by Hir

[Stealth67]

We should desire nothing, because desire, as Dr Ben pointed out, is the cause of all suffering, in Buddist thinking...

Surely by 'desiring nothing' you are noot going to live too long.

[Boojum]

I think with Taoism it's not so much that the Tao cannot be understood, so much as that it cannot be expressed or explained. If you can say what it is then it's not the Tao. The Tao just is.

Edited January 8, 2008 by Boojum

[Hir]

Tiriple posting, my connection is lagging vilely

Edited January 8, 2008 by Hir

[Hir]

Double posting, my connection is lagging horribly...

Edited January 8, 2008 by Hir

[Hir]

So is the conudurm, "What is the sound of one hand clapping" ... part of the Tao way?

Edited January 8, 2008 by Hir

[Boojum]

So is the conudurm, "One is one hand clapping" ... part of the Tao way?

I think that's more Zen, to be honest. It's a Koan, a question that has no rational answer who's purpose is to encourage a meditative state of mind that is above rational thought. To quieten the internal dialogue, so to speak.

[Guest tootsweet]

What would we be without desire? robots?

[Boojum]

What would we be without desire? robots?

That's my problem with that whole area of Buddhism, perhaps because I'm a very passionate person (and passion/desire, same thing really). The idea of a life without passion strikes me as only half a life. I'd rather suffer but feel passion than feel nothing.

[Keye]

To quieten the internal dialogue, so to speak.

Got weed for that! And my god, don't i need it!

But why assume that there is a higher power giving life meaning? (to tangent a little bit). Surely what drives the human race forward would be it's meaning, regardless how benign? If that's the case, then the meaning of life is to pass on your genes to the next generation.

Quite interesting thought though Hir. Maybe Buddha has a big joke for everyone - if this is central to Buddhism and one of their great paradoxes, then perhaps the moment you go 'What a waste of time, why don't i live my life' and stop searching for the stopping of searching, you've acheived enlightenment! Perhaps Buddha was making a comment on religion, or other religions?

Maybe it's a tie-in so you can never figure it out, you just have to keep going. Pretty clever! See, when the Bible lays down 2000 as the year it all ends, it's committing itself. When Buddha drives you in a circle, you can never get to the end!

[Hir]

The whole MD bit and the smoking of cannabis made me feel you gotta feel something and the really pure form of Buddhism denys you that ... as has been said, passion.

But again for all that I feel a closer affinity to Buddhism than almost any other systems of ideas these were the thoughts and seeings and knowing of one man, initially. He believed his life was his last but if we do reincarnate was he right? He could have moved on, if that is what happens, or he could have reincarnated... some of Buddhism is still just faith ....