Arnold Layne Posted May 19, 2002 Share Posted May 19, 2002 Well I thought I might get the ball rolling. Here's what I am up to. Until recently I grew in John Innes No.3, using modest amounts of chempak ferts, although flushing for the last three weeks. Then I decided to try organic. First I changed all ferts to organic, using John Innes {JI} No.3. Result - great taste, unchanged high, modest - disturbing yield loss. Next: Fully organic. This is still in process. First harvest will not be for some time. But I have noticed that growth and root formation in the clone stages is very much slower. Soooo slow! My early suspicions are that organic growers need to adjust expectations, especially in yield. Anyhoo - any comments appreciated. My guess is that I will await the full transition to organic until such time as I can grow legally. In the meantime I have a hunch I will still use a few ferts just to keep a steady stash tin, and that is the name of the game at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest THE PUFFER Posted May 19, 2002 Share Posted May 19, 2002 John Innes is good, easy to use stuff..but the final texture of the medium and the drainage can be improved by adding a mix of coco substrate, at the ratio of 75% J.I. - 25% Coir. This makes the medium a little more airy and less prone to overwatering. When using this particular medium in pots, I will also put a two inch layer of clay pebbles in the bottom of the pot, for extra added drainage. The primary nutrient feed I would use would be seaweed extract and just vary the doses with the development of the grow. For added potassium at flowering, I would finely chop banana skins and sit them on the top of the medium (always leave an inch space for this at the top of the pot), so when I watered, I always watered over the banana skins. For the slow growth you mentioned Arnie, couldn't it be speeded up by CO2 enrichment....or isn't this classed as organic ? ??? For what you lose in yield, (which will be gained back with experience)....you gain in taste and I really think taste is very important in the high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted May 20, 2002 Author Share Posted May 20, 2002 Good stuff Puffer M8! About Coco - is it OK to use the stuff from the Gardencentre? I know Canna do stuff via the "grow-shops", but that's not convenient for me. I suppose what I am doing at the moment is some fully organic, and some almost-organic - JI3 and organic feed. One thing I have learned: Beware Rooster Shit. Its very strong and can cause burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICaneBud Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 Nice one AL, here's how my version of the same experiment is going (although I can't compare with any yields having not harvested grow#1 yet and my mate who grows this strain just uses JI#3 and no feed all the way). J Arthur Lowes do an good general organic compost that has a reasonable texture. For my latest clones I started them in 100% coir (from garden centre) with a light maxicrop watering in a heated propagator (they took really fast, root bound in a week) then moved them to my intermediate mix which is: 3 parts JAL compost 1 part grit sand 1 part perlite 1 part coir sprinkle epsom salts sprinkle lime Which feels like a great mix and the clones certainly seem to love it. They're only under 40W of fluoro til harvest but they are very vigorous and have that bluish green quality that indicates prime vegging. My final mix will be as above but possibly with some bat guano if I can get it easily. I use a little B&Q organic tomato feed and an organic flower feed that is now out of production. Getting a good P hit without having more N or K is very hard with organic ferts so that's why I want the bat shit in the mix for flowering. Good recipes for mixes and information about natural sources of NPK at http://www.organja.com Keep us posted mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer1 Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 Sorry folks I’m having serious puter probs. As I posted elsewhere JI composts are not organic. I will be starting a small grow in about a week, just a 4 x 5 ft space. I am going to try a comparison using the new B&Q organic multipurpose against our own standard mix. I will be using a mix of our standard clone lines. The B&Q compost is made from composted bark and has the backing of the HDRA. I suspect it will run out of fertiliser early in the grow the cost of this compost is low at £3.75 for 75 litres. This may mean additional feeding so the cheap cost of the compost may be offset by the liquid feed costs.. This time round I will be using BioBizz grow, bloom and fish mix depending on what I think the plants need. Once I get my comp sorted I will re-post our standard mix. Arnold what was the npk of the chempac you were using? What were the organic feeds you used in your semi organic trial and what was the npk. ICaneBud Tomato feed is usually high in K, this is the hardest element to get as an organic source. P is fairly easy to add, a little steamed bone flower added to your compost is the fastest acting. If you want to be totally BSE safe fine ground rock phosphate works pretty well and is easy to get. The thing is forcing plants with high P is one of the things that can make hydro bud hard to smoke. High residual levels of P in the buds makes the smoke much more carcinogenic and irritating to throat and lung tissue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erowidno4 Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 Hi all, What's this I see? can it really be a soil forummmmh! excellent Arnie, about the chicken shit, I just finished my first grow and had a big yellow problem almost from day 1. I used slow release rooster. That confirms it I reckon, thanks bud!! I still have plants growing in the same mix, is there anything that might help, repotting isn't possible. he he never had so much free blow I would like to say thanx for all the help uk420 gave me. I would never have had the confidence to start a grow without it. ot1, if it's any use I used chempak8 - 12.5/25/25 (just saw your post) tata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted May 21, 2002 Author Share Posted May 21, 2002 High there oldtimer1, glad to see you're back - hope the puter gets sorted! Anyhoo, yep the Chempak ferts were: Chempak Specialist No.4; 15:15:30. Yeah, WHOA!! I used {past tense} it at half cock given its obvious potency! Very good yield, oh yes. But one drop too much and on comes the burn! The organic ferts: "Alan Titchmarsh recommended Organic Flower Food"; 3:2:5, which I mix with Maxicrop Organic Plant Growth Stimulant. The fully organic grwo is in "Terra-Eco" Organic growing medium, a product of Thames Water. Hmmmm! It has problems, in that cuttings really don't like it. At All! Far too strong. Even rooted cuttings potted into it, though they grow well enough, are clearly finding too much N. The problem confronting me is: Lack of physical mobility to either mix me own or shop around for organic mixtures. Their availability is limited hereabouts, and not regular. John Innes, on the other hand, is easy to get anywhere. When I find a good organic medium, regularly stocked nearby, I'll get it! Erowidno4, don't know of anything other than re-potting. Did this to a rooted clone yesterday which was really turning rusty! This morning she is already up and alert and greening up! Phew! We need more input on this. I am loathe to flush, as this may only intensify the release from the pelletts. So at the moment keeping a very dry ship! Just enough water to lift any wilts. This seems to be helping them "grow through" the problemn to a certain extent. OT1, Puffer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICaneBud Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 The thing is forcing plants with high P is one of the things that can make hydro bud hard to smoke. High residual levels of P in the buds makes the smoke much more carcinogenic and irritating to throat and lung tissue. Good to know, always quality before quantity, thanks OT1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erowidno4 Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 Ok thanx Arnold m8, all my plants complained except a blueberry which looked fine but was a bit slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICaneBud Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 JFYI My latest mix is with: 3 parts B&Q organic growbag (same as the composted bark OT1 mentioned I think but cheaper for some reason, £1.28 a bag) 1 part grit sand 1 part perlite the B&Q stuff looks darker and heavier than the JAL organic growbag I used for the clones earlier on I reckon I'll feed once a week from here on in with this setup cos the pots aren't huge and they've been root-bound in two pot sizes so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted August 14, 2002 Author Share Posted August 14, 2002 Update Well, what a time its been! I had to give up on the Terra-Eco stuff, and return to JI.3 & organic ferts. Very wobbly month at the mo as I am harvesting the rather tawdry results of the Terr-Eco/back to JI.3 plants. But: As of about 3 weeks ago I have been using Bio-Bizz "All-mix". Bloody marvellous! Excellent growth, lovely roots. OK, its pricey, but not when you weigh it againts the end results. Have also just started using Bio-Bizz "Bloom". Must say a Big Thankyou to Oldtimer1, who has revolutionised my GR most effectively with his patient advice of roots, pots, compost and feed. Looks like the yield will be back soon OT! So... Thankyou! Will report back in about a month. The future's lookin good, it's lookin green! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer1 Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Arnold Thanks for the compliment mate. But spreading the info is what it is all about to me, so if it works for you I'm well happy. Just spread the word around and get more people growing top quality puff is all I want to see. I think you are going to find the puff tastes pretty fine as well. Looking forward to hearing how you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotweed Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Excellent thread I only wish I had found this earlier. I have three strains growing. 1/3 in Biobizz all mix from day 1 1/3 in biobizz all mix from day 1 in peat pots 1/3 in various Jinnes mixes I know this is not scientific as they are all from seed but I hope to gain I rough idea of what works best. I am rooting (scuse the pun) for he biobizz started in peat pots, sooo easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Flint Stoned Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 I was worried when I started reading this thread and read that the pure organic soil was making growing slow.....but when I got to the end it seems like the organics are fine for a decent timed grow. I have changed plans so many times with this near future grow, so I am glad I can use the biobiz. I plan to use the light soil first and then the stronger kind (can't remember their exact names). It was excellent to see that it has worm castings already added also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted August 15, 2002 Author Share Posted August 15, 2002 Higha Fred Yes I too have changed a fair old bit. But this Bio-Bizz Allmix is great so far! I am using the Light mix for clone rooting and seeds, but its Allmix from the time they are rooted. Fun, isnt it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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