impsvi Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 i think im current outdoor is 100% organic. First of i didnt use any artificial lights, even germated them on me windowsil. I used only organic ecologish all mix soil. And sea weed based fert that is organic. I cant think of anything else. wait, arrr man, i germinated them in pots, but they were only in pots for 1 1/2 weeks but i guess there not organic, ah man. I give up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sittingrelaxing Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 ..... hobbies can be so taxing............. what's the best compost soil for growing in ???? what's the best organic nutes,to add when needed ????? i'm thinking of going half coco/soil.......... i cant be lifting loads of soil,i gotta dodgy back.......... so i thought half and half will require less lifting....... sr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Bio Bizz "allmix" Sr, and the best thing is - its really light! I like soil precisely because of my back probs! The trick is planning, and I mean Planning. Some days I have to plan how to water each plant, let alone how to move them around. I work in short 10 minute bursts. The exercise does me good I'm sure. Although sometimes........ And I really ought to SOG..... made a rod aint I??? How to move from a rotating FOG to a one off SCROG?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sittingrelaxing Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 cheers arnold............. i found scrog to much work on the trimming front, so i started growing just center cola's,a lot easier to trim,(but less trim for bubblehash) whats FOG???? (dont say a smokey mist... ) i'm just waiting for my mothers to pick up abit,then i'll take some cuttings..... normally i've got cuttings ready to go, if i put coco in aswell for extra airation,will soil nutes still be ok to use?????? or is it possible to use the coco nutes when needed????? anyone know if fungus fly can burrow through sand????? i'm thinking of putting a layer on top... sr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer1 Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 impsvi allmix is compost not soil. Every thing in it is pretty good except that about half is peat. I think they are working on changing that as it also seems to have coir in it now even though it is not listed on the bag. I know biobizz are working on getting their products approved with the soil association. Thats a pretty positive thing in my opinion. sr allmix has a near perfect air/water holding balance. Although coir has some trace elements in it you can class it as inert. So if you mix it say to make 25% and allmix 75% you make the base fertiliser reserves 75% of what pure allmix has. The only reason I can see why you would do this is to save money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sittingrelaxing Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 cheers ot, money aint a factor really, it was more wieght(carrying it home) and airation i was concerned about, what nutes and extra's would you recommend,ot??? do i really need the extra's???? again i dont mind paying the extra,but if i'm just force feeding them to gain wieght i aint to keen........ for me taste is most important,i know i'll get high and i'm not to bothered about yield...... i'd like to grow totally organic,but i'm restricted... so if i can get as close to it as i can,i'll be happyier..... cheers sr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 FOG ..... Forest Of Green. I veg mine {3 inch pots, then 6 inch, then the final "bucket"} for around 60 days - it varies according to strain, but until they get around the 3 foot mark. Then its 12/12 for 64 days, and you end up with 4 - 5 foot plants in buckets carrying around 4oz apiece hopefully. That's what has evolved up there! I'd really like to go SOG, with lots of nice short central colas like you mention. A la OT1's "45 baby cuts" thread, if you can remember it. It'd be easy if I flowered en masse {8 plants all at the same time}, but I don't - it's one every 8 days. I have a vague plan, but it keeps getting lost........ No idea about coco stuff. I've just been using -Grow and -Bloom; It seems to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldDave Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Hi all Could someone explain why using artificial light is considered to be not organic? Assuming that you use soil or an approved organic alternative (is coir apporved?) and all organic nutes that is. One advantage of growing organic that hasn't been mentioned, on OG there's a thread on something like "what grass gives you the least effects the next day". The consensus there seems to be it's mostly what we feed the plants that gives the bad effects the morning after - anyone got an opinion on this here? My outdoor grow is organic I think, although I used clay pots for the seedling, these last for ever. No fertiliser yet as they dont appear to have needed it so far. My current indoor is about as far away from organic as it gets - cubes, pebbles, GH Nutes, PK13/14, O+, the whole bit. I am growing some of the same strain, WWxNL5, in both ways so come sept I'll be able to judge for myself. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer1 Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 A mine are not short because they are mainly sats. Liquid Fertilisers! I mainly use grow and bloom with a couple of shots of Mg. But I also use a little viz-mix [fish fertiliser] if I need to. The skill is to watch your plants and let them tell you, as I have said many times I do not believe in formula growing. I have some Topmax to test at some point, but have just not got around to it yet. Mainly because what I am already doing is giving excellent results. I would say that once the actual skill of growing has been learned and good mother lines selected, that good yields of the best quality weed can be had. From years of tests 50w of mixed light per sq ft gives the best result per watt balancine weight and quality. That an absolute minimum yield of 2.5 ounces of good bud per sq ft of canopy should be what you are looking for. The best I have ever done is 3.35 oz per sq ft. One of the people I taught did a midge under 3.75 oz thats over 4.5 lb on the Kw, trust a young git to beat the old git, and we are talking about totally dry ie hung for 3 weeks + in the dark. This is based on a 10 to a 12 week flower cycle, depending on the vars in the grow. So compared to someone on an 8 week flower cycle an average of 2.5 oz a sq ft becomes 1.67 per sq ft in equivalent ie just over 2 lb on the Kw. But to me yield is not what it is about, quality is. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer1 Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Dave organic growing is supposed to be about sustainability, conservation and improvement of the land. Soil itself is a natural living environment. Soil will not work in pots for growing plants the micro flora die or go wildly out of balance. Its drainage factor and air holding abilities are totally wrong so it has a tendency to go anaerobic really rapidly. That is why potting composts were developed. ie something similar to soil that works in an enclosed container. Organic composts are ones that have a similar micro flora to real soil and work in a similar way. ie it has a high natural content of organic matter that is being broken down by the micro flora who in turn release NPK and trace elements for the plants to take up. A lot of the NPK and trace elements in liquid organic fertilisers are not in the form that plants can absorb immediately any way, the micro flora in the soil or compost do that for you. Using electricity to grow a tropical plant in a cold climate is not considered environmentally friendly, I don’t know how many lbs of co2 are produced generating each Kw but its a lot more than the plants absorb from the light generated. The only way you could compare your ww x nl5 organic versus chemical is to grow them under the same lights at the same time in the same room. Outdoor grow plants are nothing like the same plants grown under HID’s indoors, especially as far north as London. Mind you even though the sun is so weak here I have had some quite good results by flowering them to finish at the end of August. As far as I’m concerned plants grown in organic compost in pots [plastic or clay] and using only organic liquid feeds under lights produces bud that is as near to organic as I can get. To do it and get a similar result naturally I would have to be 30 deg or less from the equator so it would comply with organic growing regulations. Personally I think some of the organic rules stink. ie I can go to a supermarket and buy french beans with an organic stamp of approval today July the 17th! They come from Nigeria, ok they may have complied with organic growing rules when growing them. But what about the co2 produced by the air freight and chilling them getting them here and the cold cabinets they sell them from. Seems two faced to me. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squidzle Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Im new to growing only 1 week 90% germ out of 10 seeds.I am only doing this for my wife with M.S. I dont smoke it ,but it helps her with pain relief.I am growing in john innes and am a great believere of organic. But looking threw this forum has upset me to look at u bicker about soil issues v hydroo but I bet u all use HID ?lighting its not green? its not good for enviroment using all this power.I am growing with flouros for veg and enviros 125watt 4 in a quad reflector near enough same just under a 600watt hid but half the wattage half the heat and no extractor fan or input fans so less electric.Maybe Im wrong but I feel your just about bud quantatie not qualatie .Ihope to be prooved wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pd666 Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 erm i get alot of my harvest and id pretty much say its quality u can achieve quality with quantity weed anint like a watered down drink unless u use shitty bagweed seeds i grow in jhonn innes #3 which isnt organic correct ? and i use cheap ferts i dont mind wot i pump in as long as i flush well and truly before smoking im not fussed organic hydro soil compost all the same to me shouldnt make a diffrence organic or not aslong as u flush correctly or am i wrong <<<<waits to be corrected by the pro's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer1 Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 John Innes composts base fertilisers are part chemical and part natural. So it is classed as a chemical based compost.. You can not flush chemicals out of plants. Neither can you flush the nutrients from the compost. You can dilute an excess of chemical salt held by the compost if you over fertilise as long as you run lots of water through the compost before it gets locked into it. JI composts still has a good population of micro flora as the chemical fert used in its base is not to harsh enough to kill them all, but it is toxic enough to kill off any worms. Being soil based it also has every micro and macro in it, using supplementary chemical fertilisers to replace depleted nutrients and to also boost yield will likely kill the remaining micro flora and give an inferior product to if water alone was used, but give a larger yield. Supplementing with organic base fertilisers will boost the micro flora and give a superior quality bud. It depends on what supplementary chemical ferts you use, but the residuals left from some of the cheap phosphorus fertilisers is extremely carcinogenic when burnt and inhaled. What you call flushing I suspect means you just water them for the last week or so, hoping the plant will metabolise some of the excess nasties in its tissues. This may happen to some extent as all you are doing is starving the plant a little, how much depends on how far the chemicals you used have killed the micro flora. On lighting from all the data I have read compact fluorescents produce about one third the yield of a sodium lamp, watt for watt of electricity used. Extractors are for air exchange not removing heat, that is just a handy byproduct of having air exchange. Plants are made of Co2, well lit plants will absorb all the Co2 in the air of a space without ventilation in 10 to 15 mins, They will virtually stop growing after 7 mins. So for plants to grow normally, a complete air change at least every 5 mins is needed. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pd666 Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 cheers for filling me in m8 when i mean flushing i mean running water through the soil for ages like every week to wash excess salts away infact the only organic product i have is notrozyme i usually starve my plants for the last couple weeks only giving ph adjusted water john innes has worked a treat for me tho but from wot u said about all the chems i might actualy think about switching to organic products u amaze me with the infinite knoledge u have im inpressed cheers bud peace pd666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer1 Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 If you are ph adjusting water using phosphoric acid, you are in fact chemically feeding them P = phosphorus. You probably do not need to ph down the water as JI will buffer its self. Not using phosphoric acid will improve the taste and burn factor of you bud no end. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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