psychedelia

[kilgore trout]

ah i do wonder what would have happened to me if id never had my world view rearranged by mushrooms and acid and my heart awakened by cannabis.

a businessman somewhere sex addicted and on crack cocaine :-D

psychedelics took me from a deterministic world where all was explained and only physical and intelectual desires mattered, to a world of joy and magic, i suppose i was reborn really.

I spose id just like to raise a few topics for discussion:

is psychedelia a valid spiritual pathway?

is cannabis a psychedelic?

what role could psychedelics play in this society?

what are peoples personal experiences of psychedelic use?

really, psychedelia is one of me favourite topics and just wanted to start a thread where we could discuss it and hear other peoples opinions and experiences.

so should the goverment force 2 mushroom trips a year on all adults of average mental health, for the benefit of us all?

[Boojum]

While I think taking hallucinogens has deeply shaped the person I am, and made me more open to new ideas, less likely to believe the bullshit I'm being fed by the media etc, I also believe it's done so because I was receptive to it in the first place. I know a lot of people who have taken hallucinogens and who have not been changed one iota by the experience - to them tripping was just like a theme park ride, all flashing lights and pretty colours but leaving precisely no long term impact on them. I think some people simply aren't receptive to the psychedelic experience, they are shallow people so what they get is a shallow experience that leaves them basically unchanged. Perhaps I'm being an intellectual snob, I think some people are simply too dim and lacking in imagination to open themselves to the divine heights of a true psychedelic experience. But to those with the inner ability to recognise the true implications of the psychedelic experience, once you've been there you'll never be the same person again (and unless you abuse it and end up an acid casualty I think you will be a far better person for it). I used to dislike Timothy Leary's elitist view of psychedelics, that they aren't for everyone, just the most intelligent and/or gifted, the artists, musicians, thinkers and dreamers. I used to think that bordered on intellectual fascism, and that psychedelics were for everyone. But looking with a critical eye at how psychedelics have affected (or rather failed to affect) many of my acquaintances (generally the non-too-bright ones, or at least the non-too-imaginitive ones) I think maybe Leary was right after all. I think maybe you've got to be open to revelation in the first place to experience it. Otherwise it's just another drug, like alcohol or cocaine.

[tsk]

good thread mister trout. big fan of your work in general and its nice to see some on-line rather than in old porn mags

i think if i werent so chicken id become a full time psychonaut. the last trip i had began just before the bells of 2006 started to ring. me and tom caine were up the hill of inverness castle and looking north over the river. had a few bevvys and a few joints and tom had a 500ml coke bottle o brew. it was the first time id psychadelicised in years and it was one of the best trips ive ever, ever had. oh, im grinning like a bitch just thinking about it... the fuckin fuckin funniest trip ever. oh man, for an hour we just laughed, fuckin fuckin laaaaughed.

nots strictly true now i think of it. i became animated, super hightend sense of sarcasam forged with absurd comic powers. poor old tom was reduced to almost non verbalness, other than grunts and laughter, while i slagged the shit out of him and my self and every other stupid beautiful perfect thing in this staggeringly complex uncomprehensible universe. oh man what a night. im so happy right now

i adore tripping inducing substances, natural or manufactured, i dont care. in my late teens i was eating sheets and just absolutely loving it. i only stopped becasue e came along and acid became impossible to find. gutting.

ive dabbled with the most common forms of mind altering substances. nothing else has come near the immediate impressions of delight provided by cannabis and psychedelics. these are, imo, the best.

is it a valid spiritual pathway? cant see why not. cant see any pursuit that couldnt be used as a valid spiritual pathway. any route back to the source says i.

(thinking about this, how can there be such a thing as a non valid spiritual pathway? what would be an incorrect spiritual pathway? sorry, just thinking out quiet...)

i do wonder out loud about the the harvest times of outdoor cannabis and the start and end of mushroom season and their realtion to one another time wise. the logistics of curing both and their finished dates. and then those dates compared with pagan festival dates...

i would be very interested to know this and if anyone can further enlighten...

maybe not everyones ready for tripping. maybe not everyone needs to see the same thing. we all different. horses for porches an that. im glad i was and remain ever ready should the need arise again, unexpectedly or otherwise

[kilgore trout]

is funny that, to don juan (from the books of carlos castanada), psychedelics were only neccessary to those who were too dumb to see that they didnt understand everything (mainly, from what i can remember "westernised" folk). he said that they were not a major part of the way he was teaching, but only a method to snap people out of the deterministic materialistic illusion brought about by the seeming perfection of our theories, to show us that we werent immortal, we werent in charge etc etc.

tend to agree with ya, though, boojum, psychedelics are just seen as a bit of fun by most and that what they see while under them is only illusion, while to me, and others, what is seen is a deeper truth. Ive never got it when people say "dont worry ya only tripping".

i do find, though, if ya trip with the more non-reflective types, ya can encourage them to pay attention to what they are experiencing, especially the insights ya gain into economics and sharing etc.

its a long time sinse ive tripped, apart from recently on three days of speeding (i do wish id known ya could get speed psychosis after such a little period of time) and that was not fun, although very enlightening in many ways . i have too many responcibilities to adventure too much at the moment (but accidents do happen), but cant wait till i get old and have the time and space to devote to abit more soul searching. In the meantime i can enjoy thinking and reading about it all and hear the experiences of others.

by the way, tsk, i was just made up by kurt vonnegut and dont really exist

[Boojum]

I spent much of my tripping days with folks who just weren't open to it. I wanted to talk about the universe, reality, good & evil, mostly reality and how it is a personal thing. They wanted to talk about albanian tree climbing dogs and whether it would be cool to paint badgers purple. In the end even though Iwas tripping with other people, my trips were personal, I just ignored the shit they were distracting their minds with and went with it, cos listening to the pointless, facile shit they were wasting the trip talking about REALLY brought me down.

Though I'd ignore anything that Castaneda said, the bloke was a total charlatan (and possibly a murderer to boot). Never mind not meeting any yaqui shamen, I seriously doubt he even ever took any hallucinogens. He was just another guru looking for sex & power. Bin any books of his you have, he was just a bullshitter.

[ninorc]

I've not had a large number of psychedelic experiences, but I do believe the ingestion of these substances can give one glimpses of parallel worlds which are only accessible otherwise through intensive spiritual work, which involves overcoming the ego. People talk about the ego death of an acid trip, but when the drug wears off, the ego is still there and often stronger and more self-regarding than ever. IMO, the likes of Leary and McKenna are prime examples of this intellectual superiority. Bill Hicks is an example of someone who developed his consciousness - and his comic persona - via a carefully controlled series of experiences with mushrooms, but obviously, as a stand up comedian, Bill had a raging ego! A danger in taking hallucinogens casually is that people may not appreciate what it is they are taking, or what energies they may be opening themselves up to. If you take powerful hallucinogenic drugs in an environment in which the organising principle is profit and the people supplying the drugs are gangsters and the atmosphere is frantic, you may expose yourself to malign forces. When I meet ex-ravers who've seen glimpses and have been inspired to get on the path, but seem to have fucked themselves up, I give thanks that I've never been tempted very far down that route. On the other hand, every time I've tried to organise some Bill Hicks-style vision quest out in the woods with a fire to stare into and a load of mushies, something always seems to go wrong and it never quite works out. So, perhaps I'm just not supposed to be doing those things.

[Boojum]

Ah man. I know we've had disagreements in the past (probably based on my ego, or at least my argumentative nature) but most of that post I agree with 100%

It's about set & setting, but maybe even going out and seeking something is the wrong mindset.

My most valuable trips, the ones I still remember and wish I could have again have been impromptu ones, no expectation, just happened (but all have been out in the woods, so to speak). Maybe I 'rebuilt' myself as bad as I was before, but while I was there they were great, not pleasurably, but from what I feel I learned. Maybe another part is learning how to integrate it into your life, not just forget the implications. Maybe the most important part of a trip is not the peak, but what you do with the comedown - that's what Leary tried to do in The Psychedelic Experience, but it was a bit too scholastic. Someone needs to provide a working guide on how to come down and not just go back to the person you were, but in a more accessible way.

I wish I could trip now, but there's summat about lithium that makes hallucinogens physically dangerous (LSD could kill me). I was too young when I was a tripper (did SHIT loads, more than anyone I've ever met, but maybe, though it did change me, I perhaps wasn't ready for the change, so it didn't change me as much as it could have). Was just a kid.

[pete3867]

great thread , there ain,t much I can add so I won,t

[kilgore trout]

whilst id disagree about carlos castanada, id agree with the point that its not the peek that matters, but how u intergate ya experience into ya life afterwards.

i started tripping at around the same time as i discovered meditation, and while id say that tripping brought revelations, it was mediation that solidified those ideas within me and made them a perminent part of me, if i had to choose between meditating and psychedelics, even cannabis, id choose meditation.

also, i think the insights ive gained through meditation have been deeper than those ive gained through mushrooms etc.

the point is with psychedelics is that old habits die hard, ya can be "one with god" (or any other phrase for it) for a couple of hours, but soon enough ya old self will reassert itself, ya old thought patterns will re-emerge, and ya be back to normal with a nice memory, or even worse a justification to say how great u personally are compared to all the "prols", from ego death to strengthening of the ego.

saying that though, i do still see mushrooms especially as a tool for unblocking the pipes, and if ya can manage to follow through, its possible to get rid of the blockages for good.

id agree that the setting and expectations are the most important thing for any heavy psychedelic experience. when i heard, as a young hippy, about these ravers taking acid at clubs i was amazed and pretty scared by the idea, how could they do it. then i tried a few of their trips and saw how they could do it, they werent of a proper dosage, and also, as i discovered much to my delight, a good bit of dancing is a great way to dispell paranoia

[Boojum]

whilst id disagree about carlos castanada,

Nah man, seriously. Do some research on him.

[kilgore trout]

ah ive read all his books and know all about the controversy about their truthfulness, although i hadnt heard the murder bit, indeed, im even told that the indian tribe he describes dont even exist. there is, however an intricate thread of progression running through his books, only revealed towards the end, that is so in line with what i have experienced in my own half arsed spiritual seekings, that, while the evemts may be made up, or not, the books describe to me a deeper process or logic which is very "truthful" to me.

just one example from what don juan is said to say:

you are walking along a mountain path, you see ya laces are undone, ya stop to tie them and a huge bolder crashes down where u would have been if u had not decided to tie ya laces. the next day ya walking the same path, once again ya notice ya laces are undone, u stop to tie them and a bolder crashes down on ya head. ya cant know the outcome of tying ya laces, all ya can do is tie ya laces as best ya can.

anyhows theres really no way to know wether the books are utter fantasy or not, i just find alot of don juans sayings seem to pop up in my head and help me out from day to day

[Guest dr rockster]

Castaneda:"When I was a

silver bird where was my body?

Don Juan:Er,over there mate,in the bushes!

Bout the only bit I remember!

Sorry guys,yes,psychedelics hmm.I think I took some useful things from my experiences,certainly made me more open eyed and a lot more questioning of established systems.

I took quite a lot of pure acid and don't need to go back there now,done all the acid I need.

It would be unneccesary and for that reason prone to going pear shaped.

But I'm still going to be doing shrooms in the future.

[ninorc]

i started tripping at around the same time as i discovered meditation, and while id say that tripping brought revelations, it was meditation that solidified those ideas... if i had to choose between meditating and... cannabis, id choose meditation.

That's precisely where I'm at since I returned from learning Vipassana. Finding myself in the midst of major changes, voluntarily getting up at 6am and sitting for an hour. Can't get high without interfering with the meditation. Suspect that, sooner or later, I'm going to start remembering dreams!

[kilgore trout]

yeah being stoned and meditation dont go too well together for me, although hindus seem to love it, and its a mainstay of alot of their more adventurous practices.

i find i fall asleep easy enough while meditating anyhow.

but i do find cannabis does not interfere with meditation in a spiritual sense, unlike tobbaco, alcohol etc etc etc.

i do find when ive got something to smoke i tend not to meditate as much, but as soon as i run out i tend to meditate alot more, maybe theres soomething that both practices have in common, which rastafarians would agree with, from what i can gather, cannabis being considered essential for proper meditation for them, i think?

[Reggie]

Psychedelic experiences opened up a whole new world for me. There was a completely different domain my mind could sustain itself in, but there was always this feeling of closeness and as if what I was experiencing wasn't far from what I was seeking, or indeed much different to my usual mindself. I think psychedelics certainly open doors into other areas of our mind, and they free some senses we may not have otherwise known about, but essentially they still only remain triggers to open doors we could access without drugs, if we tried very hard. It seems that psychedelics are catalysts, in a way. You definitely need a certain type of mind to appreciate them, however. They've made me much more spiritual.