Is there a chemist/biologist in the room

[Bad-Eend]

HI

 

I am posting this here as I am growing for medicinal purposes but I am getting confused....

So my partner is having huge benefits from CBD +  tincture ...... the over the counter stuff did not do but this stuff does (Chronic back pain and Fibro)

 

Rather than trying to source (the person we got this batch from is no longer available) I invested in a tent a couple of lights and a few different seeds... frankly I wish I could stare these plants ready by just looking at them. (1st grow)

 

I have been looking on how to make tincture, both oil and alcohol based .... and then I came across butane honey ...which was done after bubbling? (Seriously the terminology ...) 

 

So bubbling, as YOU might know but I did not is making hash with Ice water..... (and the butane honey is a similar principle but with liquid gas)

 

BUT

WHAT happens and what is the end result

 

Apparently alcohol and glycerin tinctures are 1:3 canabidoid:carrier   (Though you could easily concentrate the alcohol based one)

Which carriers have the best canabidoid binding properties

 

Question 1

As canabidoids are oil they are not water soluble, I understand that principle ...... BUT does bubblehash = alcohol tincture with alcohol then removed

 

then I cane across Dabbing ... which is not that annoying "dance" convulsion...

Now you can find anything on youtube .... (I am actually really wondering what you cannot find  )

 

Question 2

What is the difference between shatter wax isolate and hash? Production wise (=content wise)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[green_machine]

Hey @Bad-Eend

 

I'll take a stab at this one, your original post was a bit confused and I am not really sure what you are asking but I figure I can explain some of what you are talking about and hopefully this will make it clearer to you so you can ask the right questions.

 

All of the various methods you are describing above can generally be termed as cannabis concentrates. What you are aiming to do is remove the unnecessary plant material and concentrate the various psychoactive compound in cannabis.

 

There are many ways of doing this, one method is to mechanically separate the trichomes (the crystals that contain the highest concentration of cannabinoids and terpenes etc...) from the plant matter using a sifting process, this can be done dry, or it can be done wet with ice. To further complicate matters it is also possible to do this with both dried plant material and fresh frozen plant material depending on what you are looking. Once sifted you are left with only the trichomes as a powder generally, although it can be a bit clumpy if ice's and water are used but it can be separated again with a sieve.

 

Another option is to use a solvent to directly dissolve the cannabinoids, there are many solvents that can be used, ethanol, butane, carbon dioxide etc..... with this method a solvent is passed over the plant matter allowing it to dissolve the cannabinoids, this liquid is then filtered and evaporated to create your oil. What is important to remember is that different solvents can be specific for different compounds, butane is pretty specific to THC and does not pick up as many of the other cannabinoids, whereas something like ethanol is very general and will take nearly everything from the plant.

 

There is a 3rd method to get a concentrate which is roisin, this involved using heat and pressure to melt the cannabinoids and force them away from the bud to be collected.

 

There is also the option to further refine many of the concentrates by mixing to methods, i.e. you could bubble or dry sift the original plant matter, then use the collected crystals for an ethanol extraction or put the crystals in a roisin press and extract the oil from them.

 

I would say as a medical user you will have to experiment and see what helps your wife's condition the most, does she want a tincture that is high in thc (which can be very good for dealing with pain) if this is the case I would look more at butane options, on the other hand, she might find a whole plant extraction with ethanol is better.

 

As a medical user myself I have to say I prefer ethanol extractions from bud as I feel this gives me the largest range of cannabinoids and terpenes.

 

I hope this helps clear up some of your confusion.

 

atb

greenie

 

e2s: Shatter is generally a stable solvent extract, it will be see-through and if fully purged will shatter when broken (although heat will cause it to melt). However, oils are generally not stable and can form nucleation points and crystalise once it has crystalised, it will no longer be see-through and will not shatter and this is what wax is. In terms of what causes nucleation points in oil, there is various reason although improper storage is one of them. Hash is slightly different from the above in that the sieved crystals are pressed together to form a lump of hash, again there are various methods used for pressing crystals into hash.

Edited May 7, 2021 by green_machine
added more info

[KC]

38 minutes ago, green_machine said:

I prefer ethanol extractions from bud

 

Do you evaporate off the alcohol? I haven't tried it yet, my garden is too overseen by neighbours. I bought a machine that I think can do it though so I might try it next week.

 

If anyone hears a loud explosion, it might be me 

[green_machine]

@KC

 

Hey man, I do evaporate the ethanol as I make a smokeable end product. I know some people use a still to collect the evaporated etoh again, but I don't bother for a couple of reasons.

 

The most important one is for me is that I find that heating an etoh extraction causes the oil to go a really dark colour and to lose a lot of the terpenes and I prefer the lighter honey colours and the taste you get from these.

 

Secondly, I don't have to bother collecting my etoh, I work in a lab so whenever I am running low I can just grab a new bottle.

 

I have done both butane and etoh extractions and etoh are far safer, it's part of the reason I prefer to work with it over butane, don't worry bud you will be fine.

 

Here are a couple of shots of the extractions I made from my recent crop, I ended up with around 20g of oil. This was made with fresh frozen bud and trim and the extraction was carried out on dry-ice to keep everything as cold as possible. This wasn't fully purged yet, I took these shots when I was getting it ready for the last purging.

 

 

greenie

[KC]

@green_machine That looks awesome mate. It's not a still I've got, i'm not bothered about the alcohol, not now I can get it cheap anyway. It's a little machine called Pot by Noids, I think it evaporates the majority of the alcohol and I can just finish it off after.

 

Good to know it's not as bad as doing bho

[nop]

21 minutes ago, green_machine said:

I work in a lab so whenever I am running low I can just grab a new bottle.

 

Do you know of any reliable UK suppler of foodgrade etoh?

[growinggold]

@KC let me know how your get on with that new machine bud. 

[green_machine]

@nop

 

Hey mate sorry I can't be much help to you there, we get our etoh from a chemical supply company and 1, it won't help you as you would need both a license and commercial supply agreement with them to get it and 2, I am not sure I really feel comfortable naming the company we use as I do have a professional relationship with them.

 

I know you can get food-grade etoh from ebay and amazon, it just tends to b very expensive as you have to pay tax on it like normal alcohol.

 

greenie

[nop]

Just now, green_machine said:

I know you can get food-grade etoh from ebay and amazon, it just tends to b very expensive as you have to pay tax on it like normal alcohol.

 

I've seen those but as well as being expensive I'm not sure I trust the quality of the suppliers/product.

 

Maybe once travel restrictions ease I'll hop over to Germany and buy at source to bring back as duty free.

[KC]

I've searched ebay and amazon and I could only find iso. 

Try liquid essences @nop

[green_machine]

funnily enough, the company we use is german and you are right good quality etoh!

 

 

[EarLobe]

That ethanol extract looks mighty tasty.

 

Would be interested to know your method for butane purging @green_machine. Got a ton of kief and trim and have absolutely no idea what to do with it 

[Topdeck]

On 07/05/2021 at 1:32 PM, nop said:

 

I've seen those but as well as being expensive I'm not sure I trust the quality of the suppliers/product.

 

Maybe once travel restrictions ease I'll hop over to Germany and buy at source to bring back as duty free.

Before I made my own ethanol, I used to buy Spirytus polish vodka 90%+ proof. Pricey, but common in all good polish supermarkets in the UK, excellent quality and perfect for what you need. 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Topdeck
Spelling spirytus

[KC]

There's nothing wrong with the Polish stuff apart from the price. I think I paid 32quid a bottle (500ml). Food grade ethanol is about 20quid for a ltr. 

If I'm honest I do prefer the spirytus but not for that money. 

[nop]

Just now, KC said:

There's nothing wrong with the Polish stuff apart from the price. I think I paid 32quid a bottle (500ml). Food grade ethanol is about 20quid for a ltr. 

If I'm honest I do prefer the spirytus but not for that money. 

 

What do you prefer about it?