Lca - Some Questions Answered

[AlunfromLCA]

(snip)

I am not meaning to be argumentative with this point....but... 

I want to know what you will say to those of us who happen to think that in a GE there are some more important issues at stake than cannabis and it's legalisation.  Now please don't get upset with me as I am not really a medi user as such, so you have to see that for me the issue of what is occurring in Irag is (to my mind)  far bigger than my being able to grow cannabis legally (I already grow it anyway regardless of it's illegal status) people are dying in Iraq by the thousand and for me that is a way bigger issue than me risking a bust.

That is definately not me being I'm alright Jack, as I see a vote for the LCA would be a case of I'm alright Jack, because there is another party I could give my vote to who has policies to include the issue of Iraq (as well as other national and international issues)as well as the legalisation of cannabis.

Did that make sense?   

I just think that the only way forward is to get labour out of power, and I am sorry but to give my vote to the LCA would be a waste of a vote if this is my aim. 

So as I (and probably others) see it I could vote for another party who covers a few of the issues that are important and relevant to me as well as cannabis legalisation.

For me to focus my vote solely on cannabis legalisation would be I'm alright Jack.

EO

310130[/snapback]

>> I want to know what you will say to those of us who happen to think that in a GE there are some more important issues at stake than cannabis and it's legalisation.

I would say, find a candidate who you wish to support (rather than just a party) - ASK the candidate for their views on cannabis (we find often it is better to try to sound like you are against it and ask them to justify legalisation if their party supports it, such as Green, Lib Dem, Plaid Cymru, Scottish socialists, Socialists alliance)

If you agree with what they say, vote for them, but please, raise the issue - prohibition is not just a barrier to smoking and growing legally, it's a barrier to utilising hemp to its full potential to try to at least slow down environmental damage ... growing our own fuel here in the UK may help prevent Iraq-type wars in the future. We're starting to run polls on LCA site to get views of both endorsees and others and I personally feel that if the very vast majority of our candidates are against the Iraq war, they should come out and say so. I would encourage that, and would encourage all LCA candidates to try to answer all your questions (or those of their constituents, anyway) and try to win their votes. After all, "WE" in LCA, do have to win the votes don't we, and win the candidates too.

I'd LOVE to see one or two or more people who consider themselves UK420 standing for LCA and pushing for what "uk420" wants!

However, many people do see cannabis as a major issue, and most of the parties ignore it unless we are in their election, we thought in 1999 there was a gap in representing what "we", yes we in the LCA, want and that gap is still needing out attention.

Yes there are thousands dying in Iraq - there are MILLIONS dying elsehwere of starvation and it's being going on for years. LCA advocates growing hemp seed to feed them, fibre to clothe and house them buds to heal them. In the UK up to 1 in 4 people are on long-term medication. I do believe that the side-effects often cuase many problems and suffering for many people, and agin coudl be replaced by cannabis medicine.

I believe that legalisation and utilisation of cannabis hemp would lead to at least a partiall solution to many of the world's problems, not withstanding a change in attitudes, and I beleive that is worth voting for.

That's what elections are about - getting heard too.

I am not a medi-user either.

Alun

Alun, there have been a number of times now when it has been suggested we are dealers or uncaring if we disagree.

This is not only ridiculous, it is also offensive and IMHO extermely dangerous talk here in public.

Considering neither of those two actually grows weed..... need I say more?

I agree with Dikki, go preach to outsiders........

310136[/snapback]

Who are outsiders? I thought most of you were outsiders as far as LCA was concerned. AND yes we do "preach" where we get the chance, mostly at election times, thouigh fliers, on-line and through letters in the press. Almost every pro-cannabsi letter I have seen published in the UK press in the last few years, was from an LCA supporter.

The LCA forum was established, I presume, to invite LCA to chat with UK420 members about our issues. I don't se why you should complain about that - although I DO se why you and some of LCA should complain about abuse and false accusations.

For many LCA people including myself, this is a burning issue, excuse the pun. We get very emotive and yes we fail sometimes to understand why people do not want to come within LCA when we have an open door, and fight for all our Rights and protection, even if they do not want to join, vote LCA or stand.

We invited within the people we genuinely (myself anyway) thought we were fighting for.

The disappointment leads to suspicion. Some of LCA suspect the motives of smokers and growers who do not seem to want legalisation, or who say they do but don't "seem" to do much about it except grow in secret.

On the other hand, some of UK420 seem to have thought we were a bunch of politicians seeking fame and glory. On the whole, very much so, we are not, although some may be like that.

What I am trying to do now is patch a few things up, by coming here and answering YOUR questions, on this thread, where you come and ask a question whilst basically saying F off. I hope that when and if we meet up, we can share the fruit of the earth without arguing about politics or laying out mistrust.

The other problem is that some people, in replying to one message from one person, uses the word "you" rather than "one" which sounds very accusational to people that the message maybe was not meant for.

Alun

Educate who? Pot Kettle bullshit. Its a wasted vote for a whisper of an ignored voice. LCA who? Good cause weak voice IMHO.

310581[/snapback]

Now that's REALLY productive! Voice is weak because not enough peopel shouting, too busy arguing amongst ourselves?

did you know almost half a million people have voted LCA? shame!

Alun

Alun

Thanks for clearing up those questions in a clear un-agressive manner but:-

quote [if everyone on this site wrote one letter each to the papers concerned it would have a massive effect, but how many of you can do that? or want to put your name and address to it?]

Its this sort of thoughtless comment that winds the uk420 members up

when its from someone who doesn't grow.

I and others do write to not only the press but the home office, local police chiefs, even the Blair.

With name and address included whilst cultivating and therefore risking arrest and proscecution.

Hope the conference went well and once again thanks for clearing up those questions.

peace

310713[/snapback]

Yes I agree, we cannot expect growers to right and mention that they are growers. Neither can we expect LCA people here to tell you whether or not they grow. I stood in Trafalgar Square and heard myself shouting over a mic, come and bust me, I am growing 4 plants at home and I am NOT a medical user and will NOT try that defence - after that I decided to stop growing whilst being active with a profile I don't even want.

But maybe SOME of UK420 could write a letter? Or maybe some of you could COMPOSE a letter and we will get someone less vulnerable to post it!

Yes some of us in LCA do write letters, many do not. It is the cheapest way to get your message out there.

In Nazi Germany (yes I KNOW it is different, but there is something in common), Jews were at first afraid to act in support of other Jews (same thing with "Gypsies", negroes and homosexuals), then they became terrified for fear of identification and persecution and arrest. Then everyone else starting being too afraid to sound favourable towards the persecuted people. Then the Nazis got away with killing millions.

In the UK daily people are arrested, medi-users or not, for growing and possession and supply. Hundreds of thousands suffer pain, possibly unnecessarily. Over the last few years many have been sent to prison or at least dragged through the courts. Some have died. Millions more suffer from stress due to fear of arrest.

They are the ones I want to fight for, not people who grow at home quietly and safely for themselves or friends without any problems with the law. I have no problem with that really, just a little disappointment the people who do not want to be active, seem not to want us to be active either?

Alun

>> I reckon EO has put her finger on it. I've been trying to figure out why I, and others, have had so little time for LCA, and why they get the reaction they do. Not just the recent posters, justagirl and winstone, but the LCA in general. Look around you Alun... An illegal and immoral war, the prepetrator of which has been reelected. Our troops dying for oil and greed.... More of the same on the way...

Alun: many of us are also actively involved with contesting the war and the ongoing tyranny and suffering in Iraq, and many other injust situations in the world.

if the party continues to grow, we may well adopt specific policies

>>These days are as dangerous as any we have lived through so far........... What galls me is that the LCA ignores all this completely, like legalising a bit of puff is more important than any of this. I believe they must be living in la-la land if they really believe that one of the most important votes of our time should be literally thrown away on a party that has only one issue that, in the scale of things, couldn't be less important at this time.

Alun: This site is about cannabis.  LCA is about legalisation.  Ask a person in prison, or racked with pain from illnes, what they think is an important issue and what they would like done about it?    There are other parties and groups contesting the Iraq situation.  we are here to contest cannabis prohibition.

>>> The LCA needs, in my opinion, a reality check. A proper one. Stop looking like a bunch of self-centred,  twits and join the rest of the country to register your disgust at what's happening in our name.. Then we can all work together to free the weed, but as far as voting LCA as an alternative instead of supporting a party that shares our concerns about what's happening internationally, you lose every time.

Alun:  If you endorse LCA and become part of our party, then you wolul be able to influence policy and move the party in the direction you want, and the candidates.  In the meantime, I am sure plenty of individuals in LCA share your feelings and do something about it.

Of course, though, you wouldn't want to join aparty that looks like a "bunch of self-centred,  twits "

Alun

310784[/snapback]

Aye, words are cheap. We, who in some people's eyes aren't 'real cannabis people', put our liberty on the line every day for what we believe in. Some here regularly write to the PM, Home Office, local MPs, and media to tell them they are growing. Pity many of those who purport to represent us don't bother to fully defy the law they seek to change.

310832[/snapback]

What do you mean defy the law in secret by growing at home, grow and invite the police round, or openly smoke and confess to beinga user, like many of us do the latter at least.

Alun

[Guest FlyinHigh]

I think that you may have got some of us wrong. Yes there should be people out there fighting for the right of people to use or grow cannabis without fear of prosecution. I have supported LCA in the past and i feel i would rather have a group who can go out and protest against prohibition instead of being a party to vote for. I cant understand why you want to take away votes from bigger partys who are all for changing the current laws instead of working with them. A lot of us do try by constanly sending letters to MPs and Blair so you can't say were not doing anything.

[HvyFuel]

If writing to the PM, Home Office, Office of Constitutional Affairs, local MP, and local and national media to tell them one grows is growing in secret then one has a strange idea of secrecy. Doesn't one?

Edit - spelling

Edited February 20, 2005 by HvyFuel

[Guest justagirl]

I think that you may have got some of us wrong.  Yes there should be people out there fighting for the right of people to use or grow cannabis without fear of prosecution.  I have supported LCA in the past and i feel i would rather have a group who can go out and protest against prohibition instead of being a party to vote for.  I cant understand why you want to take away votes from bigger partys who are all for changing the current laws instead of working with them.  A lot of us do try by constanly sending letters to MPs and Blair so you can't say were not doing anything. 

311260[/snapback]

no one is saying people on this site are not active, we were talking to those who may not have thought about writing a letter.

we cannot work with other political parties until they agree to take our policies on board, the thing with politics is a lot of parties say stuff they never do, until another party is willing to agree to our proposals we have to keep on fighting on our own, until they make the promise and make it part of their policy and accpet our debate, there is little point working with any other party, unless we agree totally with all their issues too, and thats where it gets complecated, everyone of our members deserves our duty of care that a political party is 100% behind them, we cannot just sign into a party because they are talking about it, nor can we step in uninvited. more than anything that is why we are here, until they take on what we want we'll steal their votes, this way they can see someone is taking on their political game and realise we will be here until they listen, groups who are non political such as the hunters get plenty of press, but as you have seen have failed to keep the law they wanted, with politics you are in the face of the people who run the country, and are not just seen as a group of people who will disrupt society to get what they want, we're just trying to do it the correct way in the eyes of the governement.

i think it would be great if we could all unite, even if you dont want to vote lca, check out our policies, maybe you can still endorse what we say? if you do this shows the government that where people may not vote, they support legalisation and the end to cannabis prohibition, this in itself is another way of showing the government people want the issue discussed.

hope this helps

thanks for your imput.

JAG xx

If writing to the PM, Home Office, Office of Constitutional Affairs, local MP, and local and national media to tell them one grows is growing in secret then one has a strange idea of secrecy. Doesn't one?

Edit - spelling

311279[/snapback]

The LCA is not asking anyone to write saying hey i grow weed, that was someone elses suggestion, we were just replying to the comment, how many of the lca grow weed and talk about it openly, and as you can see a few do.

now getting back to the point, i have never been busted or harrassed by the police for my letter writing, i have written to the queen, prince charley, tony, caroline flint, my local mp, the home office, the drugs unit, i recieve a reply within days, sometimes duplicated, sometimes an answer never comes, my local mp knows i am active but the police havent knocked my door and told me to shut up. Infact my mp offered to meet me at parliment to discuss the issue, and he always gets a reply from whichever department i ask him to harrass, it is obvious to me that the letters i write must be filed somewhere, prehaps they have a huge cannabis campaigners database, who cares? they have never come and told me off for asking questions, after all they keep telling us its taking drugs that is illegal, not talking about it, so who better to talk to?

I have asked them about coffeeshops, licencing, medi use, busts, the fact that we pay vat on stuff to encourage us into cannabis yet it remains illegal, books, seeds the list goes on. i have never openl told them of my personal position, but why should i? i can ask them plenty of things without mentioning names and get answers, and cause at least a couple of people in a government office to talk about my letter, to each other, and maybe later to freinds or family, word spreads in funny ways.

but i did meet 3 people at the confrence who have openly written to tony and co inviting them to bust them, telling them exactly what they do, none of them have been busted yet, obe of them is a lady aged 16years after 50, as she likes to put it, not four years off 70. so it really depends what your up for, and what you want to do for the campaign.

i dont think anyone would suffer from writing a letter that said,

"I heard about the london appeal case for medical users of cannabis, i think it is a disgrace that the government is spending thousands of pounds proceeding with a case concerning very ill people, in my opinion cannabis should be legalised for the sick, after all what alternative can you offer them in their circumstances?"

"or i recently read that people who are young may suffer from phcosis as a result of using cannabis, when are you going to begin education into the harm reduction involved with cannabis use? it seems almost every drug has advice lables attatched, ie use clean needles if you inject, or drink water if you take extacy, what advice can you give for people who use cannabis"

"I am absolutly disgusted that the government is wasting so much time with cannabis only offences, it is clear that cannabis users do not behave as recklessly as some drinkers might do on a saturday night, it is about time people had a choice of recreational past-times instead of alcohol being the only choice, coffeeshops in amsterdam have been proven to be a new adult only environment with less violence involved, what do you think of that?"

or

"i think cannabis should be legalised to free up prison space"

or

"why has the government reclassified cannabis yet denied the medicine after investing so much money into the drug, and why is it acceptable to canada but not uk patients of MS"

"i have noticed that it is only illegal to grow cannabis without a licence from the home office, how much is a licence, as i noted that a dutchess recently recieved one to allow her to create a poison garden"

"henry ford made a car from hemp and made a hemp fuel to run it, why is this not being reintroduced to save our environment"

"can you emagine how much money the government could make by licencing farmers to grow hemp for paper fiber and fuel"

Hope these ideas inspire you to put a pen to paper, dont ever do anything that gets you busted, unless that is the campaign you want to take on!!!! you can write letters without implicating yourself!!

love n respect

jag xx

[HvyFuel]

What do you mean defy the law in secret by growing at home, ....

311252[/snapback]

If writing to the PM, Home Office, Office of Constitutional Affairs, local MP, and local and national media to tell them one grows is growing in secret then one has a strange idea of secrecy. Doesn't one?

I was responding to a statement made.

The LCA is not asking anyone to write saying hey i grow weed, that was someone elses suggestion

And as you can plainly read I was not asking all growers to tell those in authority that they are defying the law either, just the people who claim to speak for us.

[AlunfromLCA]

I think that you may have got some of us wrong.  Yes there should be people out there fighting for the right of people to use or grow cannabis without fear of prosecution.  I have supported LCA in the past and i feel i would rather have a group who can go out and protest against prohibition instead of being a party to vote for.  I cant understand why you want to take away votes from bigger partys who are all for changing the current laws instead of working with them.  A lot of us do try by constanly sending letters to MPs and Blair so you can't say were not doing anything. 

311260[/snapback]

The Legalise Cannabis Campaign did just that through the 70'2 and into the 80's; the CLCIA did that in the 90's. By "that" I mean act as a pressure group rather than as a political party. The result: sentences went up, more people were arrested. The campaigns made no progress, there was just Tony Banks MP fighting for legalisation in the House of Commons.

In 1997, Howard Marks entered the political arena and stood in 4 places, geting just about 1% of the vote. Not much!

Suddenly the Independent on Sunday started their popular Decriminalisation of Cannabis campaign, run a petition, organised a march and a Conference in London.

In 1999, the LCA became registered as apolitical party; we had one candidate in the local elections in Norwich; a year later we had 5 in Norwich and 1 in Peterborough. We also fought to parliamentary by-elections, Kensington and Chelsea, and Romsey, both Tory strongholds. We came 5th out of 15 in Kensington, and in Romsey the winning Lib Dem, told our candidate Derrick Large that she thought his pro-cannabis campaign had attracted people who then decided to vote Lib Dem (a bit like this list, maybe, because of the other issues). A year later, 2001, we had 13 in the general election and some in locals. We gained from 1% to 2.5% or so of the vote.

Cannabis is now downgraded. Less people are being taken to court. Fines and sentences have fallen drastically.

Maybe that's just all coincidental and the way in which teh campaign has gone has nothing to do with it. Maybe all those pronted letters, press interviews, TV etc, had little effect on Westminster or public opinion. Maybe the extra respect from the pres and authorities (some of them, not Charles Clarke unfortunately), those panels of experts that invited LCA to attend, the Home Office Affairs Committee, THe Liverpool cannabis agenda conference, the Oxford Union .. were a waste of time, BUT

Somehow I think it has been all worth while and don't think I would like to see the LCA disband as a political party, although I would like to see more activities from others outside the LCA.

Like mediweed, THC4MS, THC, coffeeshops, court protests, petitions, letter campaigns, marches, smokey bears - ALL supported by LCA.

Think I'll stick with the party.

Alun

[DANZIG]

although I would like to see more activities from others outside the LCA.

To do that you will have to go out of Norwich

Like mediweed, THC4MS, THC, coffeeshops, court protests, petitions, letter campaigns, marches, smokey bears - ALL supported by LCA.

THC mentioned above, is that The Herb Connection or Tony's Holistic Centre?

[Guest justagirl]

To do that you will have to go out of Norwich

THC mentioned above, is that The Herb Connection or Tony's Holistic Centre?

311466[/snapback]

tonys holistic centre me thinks.... along with bud buddies and thc4ms these are the three cannabis medical groups i know of whom i have set up a petition of support on the Petition them website.

the only herb connection i ever knew was stolen by a corrupt man whom calls himself a doctor, though i have my doubts....anyone trading as the Herb Connection now is doing so under false pretences the people who ran that have not done so for some two years.

hey, thats no offence to you if your out there "doctor"

edited to add: The only reason the confrence has been held in Norwich is because we have not been able to find any other venues, despite requests for help from members of our team, we hope that the confrence will be held in the midlands next year, but it is as likley it could be held in wales or "up north" infact anywhere we find a suitable venue.

It was a greta day though, the snow made it an adventure....

Love JAG xxx

Edited February 21, 2005 by justagirl

[The Major]

Hello Alun, Im sorry for my abrupt post on LCA, Just hate to see someone fight a losing fight. LCA to busy infighting, thats a shame really. As i said before good cause weak voice meaning a weak unlistened to voice. I dont want to get to into it but good luck and all the best for the future. I admire your fighting spirt and the work that you all do, but as i said they dont listen sadly.

[AlunfromLCA]

And as you can plainly read I was not asking all growers to tell those in authority that they are defying the law either, just the people who claim to speak for us.

311315[/snapback]

LCA is candidates plus adminsitrators: at this time the administrators are Hugh, Clara, Alun and Don, with help from others. Our "jobs" are to try to run the LCA as best we can to further the Aims we all signed up to, and generally run the formalities of the Party, provide fliers and info, help run petitions, letter campaigns, coordinate within and without the party, run lists, conferences, newsletters, keep funds and find funding, and so on. Exec also act as spokespeople for the party when we cannot get a candidate to do so at the time. None of the executive adminsitrators get paid and often may not even claim expenses all the time. Most pay our own phone bills for example. Some have full time jobs, some are retired.

LCA candidates are people who have applied to stand, endorsed our Principles and aims, and fulfilled other requirements, and then get accepte. We have only ever said no to one peson as far as I remember. We have no demands that they use or have evr used, or grown cannabis and certainly I would be against demanding that they start growing and then announce it to the press. We give them more or less freedom of speech, asking that they only differentiate always between their own views on issues, and those of the party.

You said "I was not asking all growers to tell those in authority that they are defying the law either, just the people who claim to speak for us." I am not aware of anyone in LCA who claims to speak for anyone other than the people who have endorsed LCA policies.

We may "WANT" to speak for you - I mean either collectively or as individuals - but it's up to us to say what we feel and up to you to agree or disagree. I would not DARE to say I speak for people who disagree with me. Signing the policies suggests one agrees.

LCA campaigners are not so daft as to grow and announce it publicly, although I must admit to doing precisely that over microphones at a rally in Trafalgar square. When I testified before the Home Afairs Committee on Gov Drugs Policy, i told them I had used, supplied, grown and possesed almost continually for 30 years; at the Oxford Union I told them I had cannabis in my pocket, as I told them when on the panel a a Liverpool cannabis conference of academics and law enforcement. I am not telling you this to brag, just to show what some of us do.

Chris Baldwin openly ran cannabis cafes and medical supply in Worthing. He uses openly.

Carl Wagner uses openly and organises Smokey Bears picnics in defiance of the law.

Don Barnard, Steve Clements, Patman, Winston, Mark Gibson who works with THC4MS and his wife Lezley, Jack Girling, Jimmy Ward, Jeff ditchfield, Rik Lehman, Farooque Ahmed, Emma O'Neill, Buster Nolan, Linda Hendry, Colin Preece, Rocky, Michael Skipper, John peacock, Paul Criickshank, the late Biz Ivol-- well actually almost all LCA candidates use and admit to using cannabis.

We all openly defy and challenge the law!

Chris Baldwin has served time for his actions. I would not want any of the others to have to do that.

Alun

To do that you will have to go out of Norwich

THC mentioned above, is that The Herb Connection or Tony's Holistic Centre?

311466[/snapback]

LCA is presnt, to varying degrees, in many other paces outside Norwich: Worthing, Hull, Cumbria, Bath, York .. Norwich is where the PO Box is, where I live and where the LCA started. Norwich was the first place to have a legalise cannabis alliance candidate. Previous to that, there was a campaign to legalise cannabis pressure group based in Norwich since 1991, formed by people who live here. So we've done a lot of campaigning and have the largest number of supporters and activists, and candidates, here too. Elsewhere communities grow and develop and different rates, depending on who is there to start the ball rolling and what the locals fear and want.

We have always asked people to invite LCA to come and meet or speak, and have always tried to accept those invitations: from Glastonbury, the London Festival, and Hemp Fair, to smokey bears picnics, court protests, cannabis cafes, to Universities and schools, TV and radio studios, chat shows, even Top Gear and Brainiac! Even Kilroy!!!

We will try to come to your town if you invite and arrange a venue.

By THC I meant the The Herb Connection, The Hemp Coalition. Recently Tony Taylor has endorsed us.

Alun

[Guest stone win]

LCA to busy infighting, thats a shame really

Alun got all this together, with many other good campaigners, too many to mention all,here , and it went really well, I know that if votes were equal to determination, the government would sit up and take note,big style

I for one am not a political animal , I just believe we are right on this....

Patricia Tabram made a spash at the conference, and I reckon we sorted the in house disagreements, at the conflab....Where they should rightly be sorted. still I am a learning, and from this deep end , can i depend on the lca.....Who Else but elsie haze.....whoops

we'ed 'av' freed the weed....as we need to .......(finish lyrics please)

winstone

[Guest nigfis]

Alun: many of us are also actively involved with contesting the war and the ongoing tyranny and suffering in Iraq, and many other injust situations in the world.

Yes Alun, but what you are asking us to do, give our vote that would otherwise have been used to register dissatisfaction with the UK's sucking up to Bush's neocon dreams, to a party that dosen't concern itself witrh this most important of issues. Why can't you see the scale of what you're asking?

Saying............if the party continues to grow, we may well adopt specific policies... isn't worth a pinch of salt man. 'We may well', is just politicians way of saying 'I couldn't give a fuck.'

>>These days are as dangerous as any we have lived through so far........... What galls me is that the LCA ignores all this completely, like legalising a bit of puff is more important than any of this. I believe they must be living in la-la land if they really believe that one of the most important votes of our time should be literally thrown away on a party that has only one issue that, in the scale of things, couldn't be less important at this time.

Alun: This site is about cannabis. LCA is about legalisation. Ask a person in prison, or racked with pain from illnes, what they think is an important issue and what they would like done about it? There are other parties and groups contesting the Iraq situation. we are here to contest cannabis prohibition.

This site may well be about Cannabis. This life isn't though, you'd do well to bear that in mind.

I'm going to quote myself........

The LCA needs, in my opinion, a reality check. A proper one. Stop looking like a bunch of self-centred,  twits and join the rest of the country to register your disgust at what's happening in our name.. Then we can all work together to free the weed, but as far as voting LCA as an alternative instead of supporting a party that shares our concerns about what's happening internationally, you lose every time.

Of course, though, you wouldn't want to join aparty that looks like a "bunch of self-centred,  twits "

Nope. I'd rather tell em what I think, in the hope they're listening like they say they are.

[Guest stone win]

Bush's neocon dreams,

sounds like a new bud name doesn't it, please calm nigfis, its only a advert......

winstone

ps, give people a violent recreational drug, will they be violent?

give them a calming drug etc(lyrics please)

[HvyFuel]

My comments were not intended for, and do not reflect my opinion of, the established membership of the LCA.

It's hard trying to do all this 'one' stuff so I'll not bother. I'll leave it there.

[Guest nigfis]

sounds like a new bud name doesn't it, please calm nigfis, its only a advert......

winstone

ps, give people a violent recreational drug, will they be violent?

give them a calming drug etc(lyrics please)

311966[/snapback]

Please calm? What are you saying winstone? I don't understand any of your post.