Are we simply complex casing for bacteria?

[Comrade Stoker]

I've been reading lots about bacteria, specifically the origins and evolution. A number of experts in the field have thrown out the idea that humans and other life forms are simply complex structures, designed by anaerobic bacteria to protect anaerobic bacteria (Bacteria that cannot survive in oxygen rich environment). @@distracted may have a view on this. I understand that bacteria from the ocean vents (At very high temperature) have evolved and overtime they have created life. The cranial brain is not required for a digestive system to process food, its believed that the cranial brain came last of all, we evolved from a basic digestive tract with a mouth at the front and an arse at the back. Over time, this worm like structure evolved and crawled out of the sea. One theory is that the bacteria that colonise human intestines drives humans to cause havoc and fuck the environment up so it can return to low oxygen (Nuclear war, air pollution etc.). I'm not saying I agree with the theories, I don't know enough to comment, but they're interesting. Has anyone else got an interest in this stuff?

E2A Bacteria appear to be very complex. They have memory, they can communicate with each other in many different ways. They can sacrifice themselves in order to save the colony, they can have in built maps of the their host, before they ever enter a host.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Comrade Stoker

[mad elf]

There is a theory that if you have too much of the gut flora that deals with starches from foods like potatoes and pasta, it can make you crave more starchy foods.

I think it might be candida, good old fashioned thrush.

Edited April 9, 2015 by mad elf

[Comrade Stoker]

There is a theory that if you have too much of the gut flora that deals with starches from foods like potatoes and pasta, can make you crave more starchy foods. I think it might be candida, good old fashioned thrush.

I think that theory stretches to loads of different things. Die off from Candida will make people feel ropey and this can direct them to the sorts of foods that the Candida want, therefore stopping the ropey feelings. Overgrowths of certain bacteria in the small intestines can cause all sorts of aggro. Its a finely balanced system, and things like antibiotics can really play havoc.

[Superdedupity]

Are we simply complex casing for bacteria?

You're a cheery fucker this fine morning Comrade

[Boojum]

The term 'designed' is where the theory falls down for me. Nothing was designed, we evolved, there was no design. And as more complex life evolved so did bacteria. We thought we were winning when we discovered antibiotics, but bacteria kept evolving and now some of them have beaten antibiotics (MRSA, for example).

[mad elf]

I think that theory stretches to loads of different things. Die off from Candida will make people feel ropey and this can direct them to the sorts of foods that the Candida want, therefore stopping the ropey feelings. Overgrowths of certain bacteria in the small intestines can cause all sorts of aggro. Its a finely balanced system, and things like antibiotics can really play havoc.

I'm desperately trying to balance mine. I'm convinced its at the root of a lot of my mood problems. It doesn't help that I have an intersusseption in my ilium Probably caused by a bacterial overgrowth.

Edited April 9, 2015 by mad elf

[Comrade Stoker]

Designed is the wrong word, you're right.

The stuff I am reading at the moment talks about the evolution of bacteria, the first evolution being a hard shell to prevent sea water from drying out the bacteria. This hard shell then evolved into more complex things. We have all evolved from bacteria, is it the bacteria pulling the strings for all of this?

[Comrade Stoker]

I'm desperately trying to balance mine. I'm convinced its at the root of a lot of my mood problems. It doesn't help that I have an intersusseption in my ilium Probably caused by a bacterial overgrowth.

Its a tough one. As I understand it (Though my knowledge is very limited).. Your intestinal bacteria profile will not massively alter throughout your life. Lifestyle can affect it, but not in a huge way, its still going to look like roughly the same fingerprint at the age of 50, as it was at 20. There are many factors that can influence how it looks in the first place, things like breast feeding, natural births etc. There are bacteria everywhere, from your lips, through your mouth, oesophagus, stomach, small intestines, colon etc. It appears that they are linked and dodgy mouth flora could affect other areas for example. Oesophagus bacteria are transient, they don't stick there, they move. Dodgy colon bacteria can prevent the body extracting the required nutrients from food. I'm convinced that bacteria can alter mood and thoughts.

[Boojum]

That's just the bacteria talking.

[FunkyJazzJesus]

it seems like because elements or the things before that began as best as i can describe as "individual" and the behaviour of these components exponentiation by interacting with others and sort of becoming atoms, molecules, compounds, in a sense another behaviour arises which is like a group, that inviduals do tasks, reactions, what have you and a 2nd, 3rd reaction occurs, much like resonance. These atoms formed into acids that with extraordinary precision, arrange energy into more and more reactive and interactive forms, that seem to be able to "learn" or memorise, which is done by its actual physical form, giving of a specific signature such as frequency that comes with a specific reaction. Eventually we have cells, which again seemed to over time give up their individualism, evolve their individual behavior to enhance this other phenomenon of becoming a system, this then goes onto becoming a bacteria, a virus, so on and so forth, what if the evolution of humans and what comes from that will become less and less individual to have better behaviors to act in a group until something like this system has occured on a higher level, i personally think it our choice and how we decide to act and it can go many ways,

Compartmentalistion of the systems, russian dolls, every new shell is the reaction to the past, so the present dictates and leaves its reaction, atleast 13 billion years have passed before us humans came along in the universe and we are part of it, even though our planet only formed 5 billion years ago, i would say that it takes 13 billion years to create a human based on the evidence and the past, all that past does dictate alot of how we behave, i found it interesting that alot of the chemistry in our body is actually done by bacteria, bacteria in the stomach having a large effect on your behaviour, i thought of a funny idea the other day about all these products people put on their skin to make it shiny and such, then people whom have constructed food to feed the bacteria on your skin, so you're not feeding you anymore, you're feeding them :S but them are you, its weird, the cells of our brain, make up all these memories or turn the energy that is sensed into a memory form that is quite unlike the energy its sensing through the eyes, then this large effect of the combination of all these cells and memories make up the feeling of conscience, as far as i can see, conscience is the newest resonance of this invidiaul behaviours arising to a interactive group, system phenomenon, our choices are not based on chemical reactions only but based on how those chemical reactions were interpreted by our chemistry and how that was transferred and constructed in the memory, the more closely your memory is to reality, the more conscious, the more connected, the more feeling.

Edited April 9, 2015 by FunkyJazzJesus

[distracted]

It is an interesting view, we recognise "organisms" such as the portugese man of war can be complex symbiotic collectives of organisms, extrapolating that out into other organisms isn't limited by anything except our acceptance of the value of the interdependance of the organisms and if the host would survive without the collective? Can an elephant process leaves without gut flora? Could it have come into existence as a species without the bacteria? Interesting questions... I see no room for design, nature exploits niches

[Boojum]

Everyone's favourite ranting atheist Richard Dawkins, before he got into the whole arguing against religion thing, wrote a fairly decent book called The Selfish Gene in which he kinda makes the point that all life is merely there to pass on genes. From the simplest bacteria to the most complex human, the only reason any life exists is to pass on our genetic material. We (as in humans) are just DNA vessels, we exist purely to pass on our DNA to the next generation, everything else is superfluous.

[Cambium]

Evolved symbiotic organism, as most living things on the planet are.

[forest dog]

When you start looking at the genetic level things become even more interesting. Mitochondria, the organelle within a cell that makes the energy, have their own DNA which carries remnants of bacterial DNA codes. This suggests that the precursor of our cells consisted of a symbiotic relationship between various organisms. The same goes for chloroplasts in plants.

When you look at a range of organisms you can see examples of almost all the steps from just a strand of nucleic acids to complex animals.

Amazing stuff.

[wildbill]

I'm desperately trying to balance mine. I'm convinced its at the root of a lot of my mood problems. It doesn't help that I have an intersusseption in my ilium Probably caused by a bacterial overgrowth.

I have noticed that a regular diet of leafy greens eg cabbage, collard greens helps with my mood. They are involved in the production of seretonin.