Man, The Measure Of All Things

[ghost539]

Fair enough :wink:,i obviously dont have the intelligence because i totally confused what u said .I like the video by the way but i struggle to put this into words. The concept of forever and eternity seem to conflict with all rational and scientific thought, there is effect without cause. I'm not to sure about the soap bar kids judging themselves, as you say most behavior is learned but by who's ruler do they judge themselves. They may be perfectly content and so it is still judgment because you are coming from a point of predisposition that says they are not acting to a certain set of rules or norms.It takes many colours to paint a picture

[Chris P]

Fair enough ,i obviously dont have the intelligence because i totally confused what u said :wink: .I like the video by the way but i struggle to put this into words. The concept of forever and eternity seem to conflict with all rational and scientific thought, there is effect without cause. I'm not to sure about the soap bar kids judging themselves, as you say most behavior is learned but by who's ruler do they judge themselves. They may be perfectly content and so it is still judgment because you are coming from a point of predisposition that says they are not acting to a certain set of rules or norms.It takes many colours to paint a picture

Maybe I haven't chosen the best words but, they are judging themselves in the sense that, we are each our own judge first and foremost. We each have the power to reach our own conclusions from the available evidence & pursue whichever interests we see fit and to create our own piece of life, and do what we do, this is of course we re-evaluate as time passes and we get older. They might well be content having no job or education, as they judge themselves although in the near future they may well be adjudicated by judge & jury. I suppose if one were to believe in God then they might think God is also judging. Role models are important, I get mine off Google, not from around here

My judgement of them is that they are not intellectual people who aspire to learn, but I am still sympathetic to the disadvantage they have had in upbringing compared to other people from more priviledged backgrounds, but still that is no excuse for not supporting themselves financially and putting in a decent effort to better themselves, and some will probably eventually realise that

[Sitting Buddha]

Sleep, sleep, sleep. Sleep, sleep, sleep. Sleep, sleep, sleep..

"That was a good sleep."

"Fuck me! What's happening here then? Am I the only existence? I'm hungry, what to eat? Let's eat anything I can."

Eat, sleep. Eat, sleep. Eat, sleep..

The more I eat, the better I feel. I eat the living to increase my strength. My strength enables me to catch and kill even more..

"Who are you then?"

"I'm another man."

"You must be strong, I'll eat you too."

"Who are you then?"

"I'm a woman"

"You are weaker than me, I can eat you"

"You are welcome to"

So we fight.

"I do not feel hungry, I feel sexy"

"You are welcome to, I shall eat you when you are defenseless. Our children shall eat me"

Bloody children! All they do is eat, sleep, fuck. Eat, sleep, fuck. Eat, sleep, fuck..

"Who are you then?"

"I am God, I can eat you"

"Spare me my life, and I will be able to serve you and produce children for you to eat"

Eat, sleep, fuck. The gods get to party too!

[kilgore trout]

Any view that is not deeply anthropocentric is hypocritical (for humans)

All attempts to represent the "views" or "feelings" of other kingdoms, e.g. plant, animal, mineral, are hubris and sham, and cheap attempts at distraction to hide the truth.

Discuss...

it is rational to assume we share common experiences with other mammals, atleast, as it seems we share a common ancestry.

take, for instance, the statement "a cow would not enjoy being crushed alive", now we are "anthropomorphosising"(sp) that cow and representing its views, starting with the premise that we would not enjoy being crushed alive, add to that our assumption that cows share our hatred of pain, we then conclude that cows would not enjoy being crushed alive.

to say that some animals experience what we call pain is an assuption, but its not a far fetched one, in my opinion, as we share a common ansetry, in my opinion

[ghost539]

Maybe I haven't chosen the best words but, they are judging themselves in the sense that, we are each our own judge first and foremost. We each have the power to reach our own conclusions from the available evidence & pursue whichever interests we see fit and to create our own piece of life, and do what we do, this is of course we re-evaluate as time passes and we get older. They might well be content having no job or education, as they judge themselves although in the near future they may well be adjudicated by judge & jury. I suppose if one were to believe in God then they might think God is also judging. Role models are important, I get mine off Google, not from around here

My judgement of them is that they are not intellectual people who aspire to learn, but I am still sympathetic to the disadvantage they have had in upbringing compared to other people from more priviledged backgrounds, but still that is no excuse for not supporting themselves financially and putting in a decent effort to better themselves, and some will probably eventually realise that

"I suppose if one were to believe in God then they might think God is also judging"

Surely if they believe in god then they would feel that god loved them for who they where and not who they might be and in some religions intellect is the devils lot.Aristotle wrote about the youth of his time in much the same way as we speak of them today.Whilst i agree with what you say i think this is an outside looking in mentality and if they haven't the same capacity or understanding is it not our altruism that would recognize this without judgment and to also understand that there jungle landscape is probably very different than ours.I'm from a deprived background and definitely not intellectual (i cant even work out how to do bloody quotes) and so i'm very interested in how you define this word.As for role models i haven't had any but these days i have my children who teach me more about myself than any book could.

[Chris P]

"I suppose if one were to believe in God then they might think God is also judging"

Surely if they believe in god then they would feel that god loved them for who they where and not who they might be and in some religions intellect is the devils lot.Aristotle wrote about the youth of his time in much the same way as we speak of them today.Whilst i agree with what you say i think this is an outside looking in mentality and if they haven't the same capacity or understanding is it not our altruism that would recognize this without judgment and to also understand that there jungle landscape is probably very different than ours.I'm from a deprived background and definitely not intellectual (i cant even work out how to do bloody quotes) :wink: and so i'm very interested in how you define this word.As for role models i haven't had any but these days i have my children who teach me more about myself than any book could.

I mostly agree with what you say. All I'm kind of saying, metaphorically, is everybody gets dealt a hand of cards, some people start with a better hand, but then how you play the game from there makes all the difference.

I'm not judging the youth, I'm not that old myself, just specifically a few people who hang about on my street who cause problems for my neighbours & me. I went out the other month cos they were all hanging out in my front garden, and the one comes towards me aggressively to fight supported by his mates. It didn't bother me, but what if it was an old man. I just laughed at him and they were all out of my garden within 5 seconds or else I would have threw them out or knocked them out.

I used to think it is natural to assume that everybody elses brain & thought processes work the same, but that is clearly not the case. I realised that I did seem to have some edge to my learning abilitiy compared to a lot of people. So I guess you could say I'm sort of predisposed to learning which I think comes from a natural fascination with things and from challenging myself.

The definition of the word in the dictionary is:

Intellectual : possessing or showing intellect or mental capacity, esp. to a high degree: an intellectual person

but to me it just somebody who wants to learn, which you could argue is somewhat of a lifestyle choice. I agree that people don't necessarily need to learn and it's only something they should only do if they are interested in (beyond senior school level). I know it can be difficult for people to get a good start in life but that shouldn't stop them making an effort and trying to get a job or education like everybody else does.

I'm from a deprived background, but I would say that I am intellectual. It is also a matter of how much time you can devote to things, I suppose with children that a lot of time is devoted to them & your wife and not to yourself, and that is more than admirable.

I guess it's only that they cause trouble that bothers me, if they stay at home and don't bother anybody they can do whatever the fuck they like, but as it is they'll be blaming the cannabis for their problems next when they get nicked for crimes.

I grew up in a worst area than this, I was never no bother to anybody, I never stole anything, I never comitted any crimes apart from taking drugs so why do they? Like I said I'm being very specific, just having a general rant at them, my mates growing up weren't probably any better.

Like you say it is all down to the interpretation of somebody elses point of view. Kilgore Trout summed it up nicely, first & foremost we only know our own mind & perception but then we can apply it to other human beings, and even to other animals with whom we can relate.

Role Models, Its nice to 'want to be like somebody else' who has admirable qualities.

I like people like the astronomer & weed smoker Carl Sagan, drug explorers like Alexander Shulgin, Albert Hoffman, etc, and people whom I respect for their work on bodyweight strength & skill (which I'm learning at home & in the garden ) like Jacob Lyons, Chase Armitage, strongman Eugene Sandow, and other unmentioned people. My role models are people directly in my field of interest.

You are one of the role models for your own children.

Peace & Love

Edited September 4, 2007 by ChrystalFarmer

[ghost539]

Thanks for your reply and engaging with me, i haven't posted before so i appreciate your candour . I do get what you mean about the 'yout' of today though its just i cant help but think its a microcosm thing and they are reacting to society as a whole.anyway im off to google those names you just mentioned ta very much owd lad

[ghost539]

Just to add that i just googled carl sagan and had to smile, i was recently watching a program on atoms and couldnt help but notice the similarity between how atoms react to uranium and how cells form at conception. My other half came down and i said " i think that the universe is all one and we exist in the singularity so that it can wonder at itself" she said "you need to stop smoking that shit" . Thats the first thing i just read,brilliant B)

[Chris P]

Thanks for your reply and engaging with me, i haven't posted before so i appreciate your candour . I do get what you mean about the 'yout' of today though its just i cant help but think its a microcosm thing and they are reacting to society as a whole.anyway im off to google those names you just mentioned ta very much owd lad

I'm indifferent to society, I only react to individuas, I judge people on their own merits. Althought I completely realise where you're coming from and it has helped me raise the awareness of some of my opinions.

Just to add that i just googled carl sagan and had to smile, i was recently watching a program on atoms and couldnt help but notice the similarity between how atoms react to uranium and how cells form at conception. My other half came down and i said " i think that the universe is all one and we exist in the singularity so that it can wonder at itself" she said "you need to stop smoking that shit" . Thats the first thing i just read,brilliant B)

The man was a weed smoking genius, I've been watching a lot of his documentaries today which probably even

gave me the answers to some of your questions. I like the youtube documentary on 'pale blue dot' if you haven't seen it before.

Carl sagan was a brilliant astronomer who was a world advoated humanitarian, he had more collective caring than anybody on our planet.

Everything is subjective, and I think you appreciate that, and I for one am more than willing to listen to the facts before I start drawing conclusions.

Edited September 5, 2007 by ChrystalFarmer

[Hughie Green]

I think we have a human hive mind already, its just all the hives are slightly different, we all react to our environment in a similar manner we are all driven by basic desires, the powers that be have shaped and allowed to be shaped the rigidly defined rules of behavior that keep society functioning laws conventions traditions etc,

the farther back you step the more hive like the human race seems, how many of us can say we have any control over our destiny, our place in society?, in fact the more I think about it we have less control over ourselves than the Ant or Bee they too are tiny cogs in a bigger machine except they serve the Queen and protect the hive/nest to the mutual benefit of all, while we serve our given imposed purpose fulfil our biological imperatives and perpetuate a species whose existance threatens every other species on the planet!. chop chop work work bang bang busy little bees.

I do not think we deserve the lofty position we imagine ourselves to be in. All the other species on the planet could and would get on with it quite happily without us, can we say the same?, where do we fit in any particular ecosystem, where is our niche?.

What about The Squid eh, highly intelligent problem solving animal, fascinating but hardly cute or friendly, Dolphins as individuals are cute too but how awesome to see a massive shoal of Tuna turn and glide as if of one mind even though individually quite boring. Some one was asking if animals feel pain the same as we do??, well I reckon anything with a working central nervous sytem can feel pain and to imagine otherwise is quite silly, just because a fish doesn't scream doesn't mean it cant feel pain it just can not vocalise it.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Hughie Green