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NezA

Inkbird Environment Control Automation - VPD Made Easy!

260 posts in this topic

Like your work mate, I'm running inkbird gear too - just the IBS-M1 with 2 ITH-20R-O temp/hygro measures. These don't actively manage power, thinking I've made a mistake by not getting the power plugs like yours. I do have some smart plugs that I'm going to set timers for as I now have a good profile for when I need to turn on heating for lights out and fan schedules.

 

Soz to hear about your pal. Without giving much away, I can probably answer a lot of Qs re the big C, so if there's any questions you may have, I may be able to answer. PM if so (I can't send any to you atm, think I'm not ranked high enough yet).

Edited by jtoogood
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Cheers @jtoogood I've got some experience but always willing to learn from others when you get to 50 posts drop me a message if you remember :yep:

 

As for this setup I really can't fault it definitely worth the upgrade if you have the funds to spare. It's taken a lot of agg out of adjusting rads and extraction for me everything is perfectly balanced all the time. I'm in a loft so my environment normally suffers significant fluctuations depending on weather so I was forever faffing about in order to get things right. This is a god send hahaha

 

Keep it green

 

-NezA

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Just now, NezA said:

Cheers @jtoogood I've got some experience but always willing to learn from others when you get to 50 posts drop me a message if you remember :yep:

 

As for this setup I really can't fault it definitely worth the upgrade if you have the funds to spare. It's taken a lot of agg out of adjusting rads and extraction for me everything is perfectly balanced all the time. I'm in a loft so my environment normally suffers significant fluctuations depending on weather so I was forever faffing about in order to get things right. This is a god send hahaha

 

Keep it green

 

-NezA

Cheers pal, ahh I see, I need 50. Better start now. Likewise if you think of anything treatment related, that's my line of work.

 

I'm getting temp fluctuations between 19 and 30, but normally can intervene before the temps go much higher.  I need to find somewhere to vent better, as I don't have anywhere to suck cool air from in my shed. Anyway, loving the inkbird apps, nice and easy control. Could I ask what you paid for those bits of kit? 

 

Cheers. 

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@jtoogood Noted, I'll definitely pick your brains for sure. Waiting on the results of biopsy at the moment so prognosis isn't clear yet. But he has been told terminal as it's in his muscles and spread all over now.

 

Back on topic,

They're on that big river bookshop as a bundle package for £98 at the moment. It's showing me a 20% off voucher on them currently so just under £80 for the pair. Offers come and go the tipping point for me was when I saw a 50% off voucher I paid £53 I think.

 

The WiFi thermostat you can get on it's own for just over £30 on a deal today as well.

 

Can't sing their praises enough.

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Im using the inkbird 308 wifi too, great that I can adjust the temps from anywhere in the world. I wonder if your smart rules are a but complicated though?? I use the automation rules instead of smart rules and Ive only got 4 -

 

Veg Light on

Veg Lights off

Flower lights on

Flower lights off

 

My humidity is controller by a12L dehumidifier which is set to RH of 50 and will kick in if the RH rises or go to standby mode when the RH is 50 or below

 

The automation rules are for "any condition is met" and use the schedule function to start at the beginning of my lights on or off period. The task is my itc-308 temp setting - light on is 32 and lights off is 22.  Effective period is the time span of my veg or flower period. I set the period to finish 2 mins before the next period stars. Ive had to play around with the heating hystersis temp and cooling back temp settings but have my heating difference at 0.8 and my cooling back at 1.8 although I've just switched to a sealed tent with co2 so dont have the cooling relay rigged upto anything as my highest temps are now stable and dont need to cool as i dont want to extract any co2.

 

Heating wise Im using a 3kw fan heater mounted at the top of the tent which is only set to 1.5kw. Ive got some current setup pics on a thread in Environment - managing co2 and temps.

 

My temps during the lights on now sit at 32 constant as im not extracting, before though they would only fluctuate by 1.5 degrees lights on and 2 degrees lights off

 

Great post though and if your current rules work for you then dont change, I tried with the smart rules for ages and moved over to automation as I found it was much easier to manage and with only 4 rules, I can easily change them when the seasons change which often affects my growe due to the location

 

  

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Excellent detailed description of how to set these up.

 

I will definatley be referring back here :yep:

 

Can this be pinned please?

 

 

:yinyang:

Edited by Shumroom
Eta
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7 hours ago, sweettooth said:

Im using the inkbird 308 wifi too, great that I can adjust the temps from anywhere in the world. I wonder if your smart rules are a but complicated though?? I use the automation rules instead...

 

For a ball park "these settings are ok" type of control the way you have it setup is definitely easier and will do a great job.

 

The reason I opted for this more complex setup is because my aim is to achieve optimal VPD, (well to the best of my ability at least,) for the entire duration of the grow. If your VPD is at the right level throughout the entire grow cycle, your plants will be transpiring at maximum efficiency, constantly. Plants are biological machines and by providing the right environment we are helping those machines perform their absolute best. So by achieving optimal VPD and getting the plant to perform at its absolute maximum efficiency, I am unlocking the true genetic potential of the plants themselves. It's the difference between providing a great environment and providing the best possible environment.

 

So using your setup an an example let's say during flower, 32c lights on (this is a little high for my liking. But you're sealed Co2 so can get away with slightly higher temps, but I'd still prefer under 30c myself) to achieve optimal VPD you'll need a humidity of 66%, but then when your lights turn off your temps drop to 22c your humidity needs to drop to ~44% for optimal VPD. I try to avoid big swings because big swings take longer to correct. Meaning your environment is unstable for longer. For every +/- degree C shift in temp there should be about a +/- 2% shift in RH. Over the course of a lights on lights off cycle running a fixed 50% RH your setup will only achieve optimal VPD when your temps are at ~25c, For example, if you're only at 25c for half an hour while lights warm up and another half an hour while lights cool down you're only achieving peak transpiration, and therefore peak transportation of nutrients and resources, for one hour in 24. 

 

During veg to achieve optimal VPD with 50% RH your temp range would need to be ~19-20c which is way too low for me. This is why I'm running approx 60% RH. Because I need my temps in the 24 - 25 c temp range to keep my plants happy whilst in veg. So I add more humidity to keep transpiration at maximum for the higher temperatures I need. The inverse is also true and if you're struggling to keep humidity down you can increase temperature to offset it. If the plant is able to transpire effectively running a higher humidity during flower is entirely possible.

 

If you want to know where I'm getting these numbers I'm using the VPD chart published by Pulse. My table was calculated with a -1c leaf temp offset. Which is about right but I need to invest in an IR thermometer to do this properly.

 

It should be noted that during different stages of growth a different VPD is required. For each stage your VPD value should be:

 

Clone/Seedling 0.7 - 0.8

Veg 0.9 - 1.0

Flower 1.3 - 1.4

 

I'm not presuming to tell anyone this is the only way to do it. It's just the path my own research has led me down. If people are interested to hear more I can expand the scope of the thread to include more detail about the topic of VPD generally

 

 

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this is right up my street and I will do some in depth reading. ive started reading about the right amount of oxygen to the root zone,  especially in  sealed rooms and the detrimental effects of ethylene. im constantly tweaking things and agree that growing is a true science as well as an art, not just about throwing a light in and sitting back. I will certainly check out VPD and see if I can incorporate it into my environment. Interesting in following some of your grows

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I've just checked out that pulse page. can't believe I need to be running nearly 75% RH at 31 degrees..  surely I'd get bud rot running those humidity levels during flowering??? Defo bedtime reading involved here. :cheers:

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just been checking my area and my vpd isn't too far off. as my dehumidifier is around light level, the RH at canopy level is a lot higher than what my dehumidifier says the RH is. Ive got an aircomfort monitor at canopy level. where do you place your dehumidifier and what you using? if the inkbird is managing the on off of your dehumidifier,  I'm assuming the RH level of your dehumidifier should be set low so it doesn't interfere with the inkbird control??? my dehumidifier is pretty basic. 12L probreeze but does the job but will need to set the RH slightly higher on the unit to raise the vpd at my canopy level. im a nerd and love this level of technicality 

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@sweettooth

 

I've got a diary up at the moment mate feel free to check it out. This is my first dabble into the world of VPD. 

 

Give this a watch mate it's interesting stuff

 

 

Here are the VPD Charts I'm using for reference:

 

large.clone_c.png

 

 

large.veg_c.png

 

 

large.flower_c.png

Edited by NezA
Add VPD Charts
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I'm too scared to test having high RH during flowering lol

 

maybe up to week 5 but after that I need it in the low 50s for my sanity and the ability to sleep comfortably hahaha

 

will try it though. always looking to create the best environment for my girls. environment = nugs. 

 

saving those charts!!!!!

Edited by GSZZ
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3 minutes ago, sweettooth said:

I'm too scared to test having high RH during flowering lol

 

maybe up to week 5 but after that I need it in the low 50s for my sanity and the ability to sleep comfortably hahaha

 

will try it though. always looking to create the best environment for my girls. environment = nugs.

 

saving those charts!!!!!

 

Fixed that post for you. :wassnnme:

 

But yeah I know the feeling hence why I'm shooting for a temp of 24 - 26 meaning my RH will be in the 50's where I'm comfortable.

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whoops. thanks.

 

I've changed up my lights off period to step down the temps over 2 hours so its not a massive jump using a 3 stage automation,  hopefully the RH will follow suite. From what I've been reading, adding co2 is only beneficial through the first half of flowering so will probably look at stopping the co2 and reduce the temps so I can bring down the RH towards the end and keep in the vpd sweet spot. First time with co2 and sealing my area so time will tell. May look at the inkbird humidity sensor and swapping my dehumidifier 

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