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MindSoup

Supplementing Invisible Sun ISH100

31 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Hello chums 

 

Trying to work out a lighting solution at the moment, I have read through a lot of the LED strips thread, but tbh its just too much information and I keep getting a bit lost.

 

I've got a 60x60x120 with an Invisible Sun ISH100 (27x27) lighting it at the moment, it does just about do the job, but there is a huge difference from the center of the tent to the edge, and as the plants get taller and closer to the light that problem will worsen. So what I need to build is some sort of perimeter ring to supplement the edges and then turn down the dimmers so I have a more even spread of useable PAR. I'm keen to do this as cheap as possible, did consider some 15watt household bulbs, Migro style, but they take up a lot of headroom. I have found what I think are possible solutions, but I'm not sure if I'm missing something as I'm definitely no expert 

 

The first is  the 24 watt strip, 400 mm version of the 

 

Mini 10W-24W COB 120-LED Strip Light Bulb Bar Warm White/Cool White 12V DIY UK (fleabay) 

 

These would need a driver (hopefully dimmable) and a heat sink, but look to me to be up to the job for what I need. Warm white is also out of stock so might have to find them elsewhere (not sure where), maybe I could buy one ready made with driver/dimmer for not too much? 

 

The other is the 9v version of 

 

3W To 24W Warm White LED Recessed Ceiling Flat Panel Light Downlight Square 

 

Pretty sure drivers are included, again hopefully dimmable, not as ideal a shape, but 8 spread out would also do the trick, or at least I hope so 

 

I'm also thinking about making my old space (35x55x75) into a veg/mother space. And this board seems to be almost perfect I'd probably use 2 just for a wider area and run them really dim.

 

12V 70W 7,000LM LED Panel Strip COB Light Lamp 220X120mm White/Warm White UK

 

Am I heading down the right sort of track? I need to work out drivers/heat sinks etc. I can solder, but at the moment all I have it s big solder "gun", nothing for doing fine work. 

 

Any input welcome, or alternative ideas. I feel like I might be cheaping out too much, but if those household bulbs can do such a good job then maybe these can too?

Edited by MindSoup
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Posted (edited)

He has a DIY section (invisible sun) and the light you have daisy chains if its the new one.......the par map isn't great and with so little height a low power bar system would have been better.

I love my invisible sun fixture but the bloody thing is very bright and very concentrated.

I was gonna make a couple of strips from his funky orange heatsinks and R strips.

 

CFL might prove to be a cheaper alternative ? At least you could put them in each corner where the biggest problem is and you don't have to worry about the plants getting close to them

 

Or do an Ikea and use there grow led :yep: ideally its strips you need so hopefully someone will come up with some better answers for you.

Edited by zen-ken

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Domestic LED bulbs are my favourite - various 6-15W.  I just dangle them where the light doesn’t reach, lower down the stems, and there’s so little heat, at least from the 6&9W, that the stirring fan takes care of that.  Occasionally, I’ll imagine a plant with strings of LEDs threaded around the stems to reach every part, like a one-up neighbour’s front tree at Yuletide.

Regular bulbs, with the dome removed for slightly more directional light, should be fine at the perimeter and if you use clip-on lamp holders, or dangling pendants, you can adjust them or get creative.

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You might be able to squeeze some samgsung f-series strips round the sides. But it'll be a squeeze as they are 630mm?? Long.

 

Unless you can get the strips cheap though once you throw a driver, cabling, shipping, etc in you may as well just buy a 2nd Invisible.Sun board and daisy chain them so you only use one dimmer..

 

Or one of migros units and split them either side of the IS

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Noopin said:

Domestic LED bulbs

I've recently found some really good powerful domestic LEDs.

I bought a few LyvEco 24w 4000k that the plants are loving in my veg box and I found some 21w 2700k Osram bulbs by a company called Ledvance. All from ebay.

Both types cost about £11 each and put out 2452 lumens (presumably before prying off the domes?). Pretty good lumens per watt per £.

I'm going to use the 2700k ones to supplement the two cobs I have in my wardrobe during flower which I've done before now with smaller bulbs.

And, as a silly little side project, I've been growing an auto in my little veg box and I'm going to see if I can flower her in there as well using a mix of these and or other bulbs I have. I've got a couple of !5w 3000k Mini Sun bulbs that may serve well in the mix here.

It largely depends on headroom and how much longer she wants to go for as well as stretch amount etc. If she does outgrow her box it should be nice enough by then to stick her outside to finish off.

Long story short: the 20 odd watt bulbs have just opened up some interesting possibilities in my endeavours. Thought I should share.

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Good to know, Wack, that’s a decent output for a domestic LED.

On a tangent, I’ve often wondered about mixing up the veg lights.  Some say that a bit of UV blue is helpful, others that going the other way - down to 4000 is better.  I’m just using 6700s but the sun has a whole range of wavelengths.

It’s a bit tricky when you’ve only 5 bulbs above a plant but I’ve wondered if, say, my middle one might be warmed to 4000.  Or cooled to 8000.  
Maybe different strains prefer different light.  I won’t go wrong at 6700 but occasional mentions of plants thriving with 4000 gets me wondering.

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Just now, Noopin said:

mentions of plants thriving with 4000

I'm finding they love it more than 6500k.

I've seen cobs like mine sold as 3000k for flowering, 4000k for veg and 3500k (what I have) for full cycle.

I've been using a 4000k bathroom light for seedlings and cuttings for a while now and that does really well.

I even read on another forum people doing full cycle under 4000k and getting results. Less dense buds but more trichome production apparently.

If you compare the spectrum between 6500k and 4000k you'll see 6500k is just a big bump of blue. 4000k gives you a good chunk of blue but also a good bit of green and red. It's a flatter curve. More sun like.

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Fascinating stuff @Wacky Wardrobe Of course, I’m in flower now and using 2700 but it sounds as though a 4000 might be of help there as well.  But then I’ll find a mention of something even redder/warmer or IR.  It’s probably not one or the other, just growers learning that their plants prefer a tiny bit of variety rather than a fixed narrow band of wavelengths.  It feels as though adding a bit of 4000 to veg is of more benefit than adding anything half way through flower.

I’ll see if I can find a spectrum for generic domestic warm/cold LED.

 

@MindSoup what was your solution?

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3 minutes ago, Noopin said:

I’ll see if I can find a spectrum for generic domestic warm/cold LED.

Here's a good representation. Only goes to 5700k but you'll get the idea. Presumably the 6500k is just more blue and less red etc. than everything on the graph.

Note the 4000k has almost as much blue as the 5700k.

 

large.6092500601b54_LEDspectrums.png

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My mind was getting boggled looking at graphs and your (clear) version spells it out - there’s not a whole lot of difference at the cool end.  In fact, they are broadly similar, with a boost at the nominal temperature.  The US seems to have prohibited use of above 5000k in public spaces as a health risk.

6700 is too “cold” I’m beginning to think or, at least not varied enough.  Since sunlight has all visible wavelengths (and beyond), it’s gotta be better to spread it out.  Same must go for flowering - 2700 is warm but not very exciting.

I’m not sure if plants absorb anything beyond visible, they’re obviously subject to it and you’d’ve thought that evolution would find a way to use IR/UV.

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Just now, Noopin said:

I’m not sure if plants absorb anything beyond visible

They do but for the sort of setups we're talking about here I reckon a mix between 2700k and 4000k are going to be pretty much ideal.

I'm experimenting now. I've got two 24w 4000k and one 15w 3000k on an auto just going into flower. I plan to increase the 3000k and introduce 2700k later on.

The 4000k should keep them nice and squat as they stretch I reckon. We'll see.

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Posted (edited)

Been away for a few days on a canoe trip. Thanks for all the replies. I ordered a 8 of the 9w Warm White(2700-3300K)

 

Dimmable Recessed LED Panel Lamp 6W 9W 12W 15W 18W 21W Ceiling Down Light White

 

Off the bay for about 30 quid. 

 

 

They'll be going round the edge of the ish100 to give full coverage over the whole ceiling. This was each outer plant will have its own 9w light (9 plants in such a small space? Yes it sounds mad, and it might be but I'm running 12/12 from seed in 3L pots) 

 

To be honest It was a stab in the dark, so I hope I've not made a mistake with this purchase, I'll probably use some pvc pipe or something as the Framework for it. Need to pop down to the builders merchants.

 

Edited by MindSoup

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Do I wire them series or parallel? 

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Posted (edited)

To be clear, these are standard recessed ceiling downlighters, as found in kitchens, bathrooms etc. and 240v?

If so, it’ll be parallel, the individual lamps don’t care if brown or blue wire is connected to which terminal, the current just goes through the lamp.

Be careful that pvc etc. may distort or sag in a warm environment.

Edited by Noopin
Y’know

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Posted (edited)

Yeah household lights. Here's a picture of one I just pulled out of the box. Pretty Chinese spec so hopefully they don't just explode lol. AC is a bit confusing for me, I have run wires in house builds before under guidance of a sparky, but my knowledge is more around 12/24v DC stuff. 

 

large.IMG_20210505_104933_compress58.jpglarge.IMG_20210505_104930_compress33.jpglarge.IMG_20210505_104926_compress85.jpg

Edited by MindSoup
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